While Wab Kinew's move to ban algorithmic pricing was a good one, this move is an extremely BAD one.
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@leftylabourtech @pluralistic Wab, normally a genius, lost the thread on this one.
Biggest issue is that it's clear very few polis have thought this one through. Locking kids out of online services is not a solution - it's a dereliction of duty that normalizes the algorithms and protects the platforms.
Most shockingly for the NDP it that it's ultimately a free-market solution that gives more power to foreign corporate platforms in terms of collecting and handling Canadians' private data. It puts adults at the mercy of their terms of service. It's little wonder Meta had been asking the US government for this type of regulation for over a decade.
And if all that wasn't enough, not just misuse of private data: A general rule about data is the more you put it out there, the more likely it will be stolen. There is an increased risk of identity theft here also. This is not the same as showing ID before going into a bar - that bar doesn't store your ID in a database.
Sorry for the rant.
@zazzoo @leftylabourtech @pluralistic
It would take patience and forethought to come up with a successful solution to the "social" networking paradigm we've allowed to develop for the worst reasons by some really doozie bad actors. Seems to be that FN wisdom relies on patience, long-term thinking and the ability to operate in the midst of unresolved conflict (or so John Ralston Saul informed me in his discussion of FN culture being a third pillar of Canadian culture). I don't know how much of that Kinew can bring into a centuries-old governing canon, especially in the context of a panicked population (at least the part that isn't so diverted and apathetic as to not see the issue), It's not a dance I would want to do, particular given how openly the titans of tech have allied themselves with the advocates of authorianism.
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@zazzoo @leftylabourtech @pluralistic Social media, especially Tumblr, helped me come to term with my sexuality when I was a teen.
As an autistic person, I was alone and found community online.
What will happens to queer people and neurodivergent kids once this is banned ?
@louisrcouture @leftylabourtech @pluralistic For sure. Your story demonstrates how this is a ultimately an algorithm/moderation issue that should fall squarely on the platforms themselves, their notion of 'free speech' be damned. Corporate social media rewards extremism and controversy then monetizes it. While many - adults and children - get sucked into the black hole, you found community and support.
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@leftylabourtech @pluralistic Wab, normally a genius, lost the thread on this one.
Biggest issue is that it's clear very few polis have thought this one through. Locking kids out of online services is not a solution - it's a dereliction of duty that normalizes the algorithms and protects the platforms.
Most shockingly for the NDP it that it's ultimately a free-market solution that gives more power to foreign corporate platforms in terms of collecting and handling Canadians' private data. It puts adults at the mercy of their terms of service. It's little wonder Meta had been asking the US government for this type of regulation for over a decade.
And if all that wasn't enough, not just misuse of private data: A general rule about data is the more you put it out there, the more likely it will be stolen. There is an increased risk of identity theft here also. This is not the same as showing ID before going into a bar - that bar doesn't store your ID in a database.
Sorry for the rant.
@zazzoo @leftylabourtech @pluralistic if it's not a broad ban on the collection of data for ad tracking and marketing with 3rd parties, then it's not enough. What I looked at elsewhere, what I bought elsewhere, is nobody's business except between me and that party, limited to what is legally necessary, whether I consented one time or not. Ban it.
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@zazzoo @leftylabourtech @pluralistic
It would take patience and forethought to come up with a successful solution to the "social" networking paradigm we've allowed to develop for the worst reasons by some really doozie bad actors. Seems to be that FN wisdom relies on patience, long-term thinking and the ability to operate in the midst of unresolved conflict (or so John Ralston Saul informed me in his discussion of FN culture being a third pillar of Canadian culture). I don't know how much of that Kinew can bring into a centuries-old governing canon, especially in the context of a panicked population (at least the part that isn't so diverted and apathetic as to not see the issue), It's not a dance I would want to do, particular given how openly the titans of tech have allied themselves with the advocates of authorianism.
@danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic But this isn't going after the "titans of tech", this is going after the end user in the name of going after big tech and they have to provide "proof of age" to the titans of tech, on leaky platforms.
Imagine the admin of every Mastodon server instance having to compile age verification info on individuals or else face heavy fines.
Big tech can easily implement this stuff. It's the little folks who can't.
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RE: https://flipboard.com/@cbcnews/top-stories-01r3k2ttz/-/a-zc5ZcFicQra9S-tt3tjT1g%3Aa%3A107108217-%2F0
While Wab Kinew's move to ban algorithmic pricing was a good one, this move is an extremely BAD one. It's impossible to implement privacy respecting age verification as @pluralistic describes here.
#privacy #cdnpoli #Manitoba #mbpoli #surveillance #surveillancecapitaliism
@leftylabourtech @pluralistic As someone autistic who loves using social media to connect with others like me, this was really concerning. I wrote letters to my MLA and MP.
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@leftylabourtech @pluralistic As someone autistic who loves using social media to connect with others like me, this was really concerning. I wrote letters to my MLA and MP.
@aarparca @pluralistic While this will impact folks in #Manitoba first, stupid ideas like this tend to be picked up by other Canadian provincies. Also, the federal Liberal Party recently passed age verification at their policy convention.
So yes, writing to your MLA as you have done is a good idea. Thanks on behalf of everyone else.
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@danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic But this isn't going after the "titans of tech", this is going after the end user in the name of going after big tech and they have to provide "proof of age" to the titans of tech, on leaky platforms.
Imagine the admin of every Mastodon server instance having to compile age verification info on individuals or else face heavy fines.
Big tech can easily implement this stuff. It's the little folks who can't.
The problem is no just the coding part of it. The problem is hundreds of small admins keeping sensitive data they can't manage and don't want to manage.
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The problem is no just the coding part of it. The problem is hundreds of small admins keeping sensitive data they can't manage and don't want to manage.
@microblogc
Exactly. The code part can be done easily enough.Now designing the data storage part and business processes so that it follows the GDPR principles of data minimisation by design it's a little bit more difficult.
It can be done (with some legal infrastructure), we are doing it for video ID (not age verification) for fraud prevention in our company, but it's nontrivial.
@leftylabourtech @danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic -
@microblogc
Exactly. The code part can be done easily enough.Now designing the data storage part and business processes so that it follows the GDPR principles of data minimisation by design it's a little bit more difficult.
It can be done (with some legal infrastructure), we are doing it for video ID (not age verification) for fraud prevention in our company, but it's nontrivial.
@leftylabourtech @danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic@yacc143 @microblogc @leftylabourtech @danneau @pluralistic And that's the issue, isn't it? I can't see these platforms suddenly shifting from "sell all the data and, oops, leave it in an open bucket" to PIPEDA/GDPR compliance. You think Twitter maintains chain of custody records from creation to destruction?
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The problem is no just the coding part of it. The problem is hundreds of small admins keeping sensitive data they can't manage and don't want to manage.
@microblogc @danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic Exactly! If I were running a Mastodon server would I be wanting to also collect/save age verification data and making sure that personal data was stored securely on top of everything else for audit purposes?
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@danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic But this isn't going after the "titans of tech", this is going after the end user in the name of going after big tech and they have to provide "proof of age" to the titans of tech, on leaky platforms.
Imagine the admin of every Mastodon server instance having to compile age verification info on individuals or else face heavy fines.
Big tech can easily implement this stuff. It's the little folks who can't.
@leftylabourtech @danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic This has been going on for a long time. I started writing iOS apps for clients with iOS 2. I had many in the app store. At first I would only release new versions when I had new features to release. But, over time it became necessary tor release new versions to keep up with changes in iOS. It got worse and worse. After a while, many features had multiple APIs the app had to embrace for the same feature or service.
Then Apple ramped up their release schedule and they touted how many new APIs each release had. They pushed that as a feature in itself.
But, the reality was that you couldn't actually own an app anymore. You could write it and submit it to the app store, but you were only renting it. Every release, the rent came due again and you had to pay with engineering time, to keep it in the store. Apps didn't stay written. They decayed because the operating system wasn't fertile ground. It meant to destroy them.
Only big companies could survive it.
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@leftylabourtech @danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic This has been going on for a long time. I started writing iOS apps for clients with iOS 2. I had many in the app store. At first I would only release new versions when I had new features to release. But, over time it became necessary tor release new versions to keep up with changes in iOS. It got worse and worse. After a while, many features had multiple APIs the app had to embrace for the same feature or service.
Then Apple ramped up their release schedule and they touted how many new APIs each release had. They pushed that as a feature in itself.
But, the reality was that you couldn't actually own an app anymore. You could write it and submit it to the app store, but you were only renting it. Every release, the rent came due again and you had to pay with engineering time, to keep it in the store. Apps didn't stay written. They decayed because the operating system wasn't fertile ground. It meant to destroy them.
Only big companies could survive it.
@hoco @danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic It's bad enough when big tech oligopolies enforce their oligopolies through their own shitty practices.
It's another thing when laws end up defacto entrenching big tech oligopolies in the name of going after big tech oligopolies.
It's quite sad because the Manitoba provincial government did a good thing on surveillance pricing, but this is a horrible thing.
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@hoco @danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic It's bad enough when big tech oligopolies enforce their oligopolies through their own shitty practices.
It's another thing when laws end up defacto entrenching big tech oligopolies in the name of going after big tech oligopolies.
It's quite sad because the Manitoba provincial government did a good thing on surveillance pricing, but this is a horrible thing.
@hoco @danneau @zazzoo @pluralistic When you're doing something good, I'm going to say so.
But when you're doing something bad, I'm also going to say so.
Much of the goodwill the Manitoba government got from the ban on surveillance pricing, it's throwing out the window on age verification.
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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RE: https://flipboard.com/@cbcnews/top-stories-01r3k2ttz/-/a-zc5ZcFicQra9S-tt3tjT1g%3Aa%3A107108217-%2F0
While Wab Kinew's move to ban algorithmic pricing was a good one, this move is an extremely BAD one. It's impossible to implement privacy respecting age verification as @pluralistic describes here.
#privacy #cdnpoli #Manitoba #mbpoli #surveillance #surveillancecapitaliism
This is disappointing. My feeling is that Kinew is jumping on a bandwagon.
