I think the thing that bothers me most right now is the sinking of that Iranian destroyer.
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@gotofritz it was unarmed because it was participating in naval exercises, at India's invitation. the US was also supposed to participate, and knew it was unarmed.
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I think the thing that bothers me most right now is the sinking of that Iranian destroyer. yeah, there are other more serious atrocities, but sinking a defenseless vessel on the high seas without declaring war and without giving it a chance to surrender is not just wrong and not just a war crime. it's cowardly, dishonorable, and goes against **centuries** of naval tradition and culture. it's exceptionally dark and twisted.
@peter that's evangelical christians at the country's (and military?!) helm for you
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> hold generals and admirals personally accountable
What is the appropriate action to take for a general who gets an order like "sink that ship now" from the commander in chief? What exactly is the right thing to do, and are there examples of people who did the right thing in that situation?
I suppose the general should say "sinking that ship in the way this order says would be a war crime, so I'm not going to do it." If a general says that, then what happens next?
@eliasr @peter
The problem is that through firings, forced "voluntary" retirements, and sidelining, Trump and Hegseth have mostly purged the senior ranks of those who would push back. But it's not unheard of for men/women of honor to do the right thing, even if it means risking punishment... or death
"Op-Ed: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago today" https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-wiener-my-lai-hugh-thompson-20180316-story.html -
I think the thing that bothers me most right now is the sinking of that Iranian destroyer. yeah, there are other more serious atrocities, but sinking a defenseless vessel on the high seas without declaring war and without giving it a chance to surrender is not just wrong and not just a war crime. it's cowardly, dishonorable, and goes against **centuries** of naval tradition and culture. it's exceptionally dark and twisted.
@peter I was thinking of the commander and officers on that sub. Did they want to sink that ship? Did they think it was justified?
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I think the thing that bothers me most right now is the sinking of that Iranian destroyer. yeah, there are other more serious atrocities, but sinking a defenseless vessel on the high seas without declaring war and without giving it a chance to surrender is not just wrong and not just a war crime. it's cowardly, dishonorable, and goes against **centuries** of naval tradition and culture. it's exceptionally dark and twisted.
@peter What bothers me most is how routine all of this has become.
Even a token declaration of war, that we know would pass in Congress anyway, is too much to ask. And the same people standing aside will be reelected en masse in a few months.
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> refusing an illegal order is a requirement under the uniform code of conduct
Interesting. Does that apply on all levels, not only for generals and admirals but all ranks all the way down to the private soldiers?
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@Illuminatus @peter I feel zero sympathy at all for the commander of that sub, who issued that order. Maybe they were given direct orders to sail to such and such a location and destroy a particular vessel without knowing anything beyond that, but they either decided to not pick up survivors of their own volition or obeyed an order to destroy the vessel, film the act (which also serves to have documented it as a crime) and not pick up survivors.
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Refusing an illegal order is your duty as a soldier; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
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@peter
One of the problems with the GOP/MAGA/Trump party is that too many of the people in it root for the Nazis while watching WWII movies.@peter @Guillotine_Jones WWII movies produced by the USA designed as overblown heroic/patriotic propaganda. Believing that the USA single handily won the war is absurd and part of the reason for their inflated military ego.
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