@volla has initiated the industry consortium #UnifiedAttestation for an open-source alternative to Google Play Integrity.
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@GrapheneOS @skywalker2k17 you keep repeating your magical words, my friend. It won't change a thing. Time was much better spent with a constructive dialogue set to solve problems pragmatically. Perhaps Canadian laws could be the problem?
Just one example of thinking.@vollaficationist @GrapheneOS @skywalker2k17
Competitive for me, not for thee
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@GrapheneOS @guilg So, years with no fruit.
@vollaficationist @guilg Substantial progress has been made with regulators. Separately from that, we convinced over a dozen apps to stop using the Play Integrity API. You're actively sabotaging all of these efforts.
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@vollaficationist @GrapheneOS the better idea is Android's built in hardware attestation lol.
Edit : the crux of the matter is both taking control out of Google and them taking that control into their hands. Even if it's open source, they are the ones deciding what apps will be approved for everyone else like how Google is trying to lock Android now, the same might happen in the future.
@skywalker2k17 @GrapheneOS you are free to pursue the consequencial meaning of your own words. Cohesion between words and actions matter.
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@Phobos1641 @GrapheneOS @skywalker2k17 tried, but failed
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@vollaficationist @guilg Substantial progress has been made with regulators. Separately from that, we convinced over a dozen apps to stop using the Play Integrity API. You're actively sabotaging all of these efforts.
@GrapheneOS @guilg That's not substantial. That's a dozen. We aim higher, muuuch higher. UA will v also need to work with app-devs. That's the way it is.
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@skywalker2k17 @GrapheneOS you are free to pursue the consequencial meaning of your own words. Cohesion between words and actions matter.
@vollaficationist oh, I definitely will actually. My support for Murena and Volla and others of those kind has already reduced significantly but I do think their users are part of the anti big tech community and these companies enable it easily our of the box in their own way (even though part of it is false marketing) and I also think some people who use /e/ and others will move to Graphene as they get more comfortable with using non Google platforms. And moving more people to non big tech platforms is helpful in the current scenario. Which is the only reason I still keep following Murena and boosting their posts.
But yeah, they are doing the same thing as what Google did but in a European flavour and it being open-source, I'm not sure how much it matters in this. Others can confirm it's security but the people who ultimately approve the apps & services won't change. I don't know how you aren't seeing it or why you can't relate to it, but yeah. Everyone's free to do what they want.
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@Phobos1641 @vollaficationist @GrapheneOS you understand some, you don't understand some.
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@Phobos1641 @GrapheneOS @skywalker2k17 lol, yes, and PERFECTLY fine with that. If GOS says no, well, ok, the consortium moves on without them. (But they will always have a standing invitation nonetheless)
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@vollaficationist Europe passed Chat Control and it's clear many of the countries involved are going to be pushing additional laws to further crack down on end-to-end encryption and secure devices. France has come out as by far the strongest opponent of privacy technology among European countries and is where both iodé and Murena are based. Why would we want to participate in a system where the EU can ban GrapheneOS if we don't comply with authoritarian laws cracking down on secure devices?
On a positive note, the EU ends “Voluntary Chat Control” in April (at least for now) and many Europeans are working on “Chat Control” to never get passed. And for “Voluntary Chat Control” to not come back.
The EU stands for freedom, democracy, and peace and, while it’s not perfect, we EU-citizens fight for it to get better. -
@vollaficationist oh, I definitely will actually. My support for Murena and Volla and others of those kind has already reduced significantly but I do think their users are part of the anti big tech community and these companies enable it easily our of the box in their own way (even though part of it is false marketing) and I also think some people who use /e/ and others will move to Graphene as they get more comfortable with using non Google platforms. And moving more people to non big tech platforms is helpful in the current scenario. Which is the only reason I still keep following Murena and boosting their posts.
But yeah, they are doing the same thing as what Google did but in a European flavour and it being open-source, I'm not sure how much it matters in this. Others can confirm it's security but the people who ultimately approve the apps & services won't change. I don't know how you aren't seeing it or why you can't relate to it, but yeah. Everyone's free to do what they want.
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@guilg @vollaficationist We've been actively fighting against the Play Integrity API for years. We were making substantial progress in both Europe and India. We've also been coordinating with multiple other companies towards filing a lawsuit against Google. Unified Attestation is an enormous gift to Google helping to legitimize what they're doing with the Play Integrity API. Volla is playing into the hands of authoritarians who want systems disallowing people using arbitrary hardware/software.
@GrapheneOS @guilg @vollaficationist it's an ugly deal that the @EUCommission has made with the tech giants in exchange for #ChatControl and #DigitalOmnibus
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@GrapheneOS @guilg That's not substantial. That's a dozen. We aim higher, muuuch higher. UA will v also need to work with app-devs. That's the way it is.
@vollaficationist @guilg Very few apps have adopted the Play Integrity API. Convincing a dozen banking apps not to adopt it is very substantial. You're actively sabotaging both our efforts to convince apps not to ban using arbitrary operating systems and also our efforts to convince regulators to stop the Play Integrity API. You're actively working against what we are and yet you think we're going to want to participate. We do not want a group of EU companies in control of this either.
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@vollaficationist I did. I read quite a few articles about how /e/ operates, it's linked to one of posts I quoted GrapheneOS in. The articles were made by a German blogger, not Graphene. I'd encourage you to read it too but yeah, I think you will simply choose to say you don't understand it. Maybe I'm wrong too, cuz I was wrong last time when I was the one supporting /e/ and Iode. I don't understand why you are telling me to think when you are the one who's saying you can't relate to what Graphene is saying.
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@GrapheneOS @guilg @vollaficationist it's an ugly deal that the @EUCommission has made with the tech giants in exchange for #ChatControl and #DigitalOmnibus
@celeduc @GrapheneOS @guilg @EUCommission Volla develops not only devices or OS, or AI and more. It's also developing a new ecosystem as well as an infrastructure. Full decoupling. A fully, autonomous communications system. GOS is a hundred thousand miles from this, right. They do googlag-ware and now even Moto, lol.
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@Phobos1641 @vollaficationist @GrapheneOS nah man, it wasn't directed at you. I just sent it like cuz it felt ironic cuz Graphene was trying to explain what is wrong with Unified Attestation and the other person just didn't understand anything.
At the start, even I was similar to them and was thinking why does Graphene not join something that's open source and tied to some companies that promote privacy and stuff. Then heard of the squabbles between them both and then looked into, I wasted an entire day over it and I know not everyone can afford that kind of time for this. I was lucky to have an off day close to when I last had a similar argument with someone from the cult. After I read some of independent articles regarding /e/, I kinda understood what they are like but they are just anti big tech in a way but they are moving towards the same thing as big tech and Unified Attestation is lobbying in EU for it and there is always a price for it and when it comes due, the people lose.
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@GrapheneOS @TuxOnBike this is a quagmire, how old are you?
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On a positive note, the EU ends “Voluntary Chat Control” in April (at least for now) and many Europeans are working on “Chat Control” to never get passed. And for “Voluntary Chat Control” to not come back.
The EU stands for freedom, democracy, and peace and, while it’s not perfect, we EU-citizens fight for it to get better.@TuxOnBike @vollaficationist Volla is working on building a future where people can only use devices and software approved by governments. Building a European system for controlling which hardware and operating systems are allowed to be used which they're going to heavily push apps to adopt isn't a good thing. Play Integrity API being controlled by a single US company makes it much easier to fight against in Europe right now. Building a European system for doing the same thing isn't positive.
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@celeduc @GrapheneOS @guilg @EUCommission Volla develops not only devices or OS, or AI and more. It's also developing a new ecosystem as well as an infrastructure. Full decoupling. A fully, autonomous communications system. GOS is a hundred thousand miles from this, right. They do googlag-ware and now even Moto, lol.
@vollaficationist @celeduc @guilg @EUCommission Volla sells white labelled devices from an ODM. Your devices don't come close to the security of an iPhone or Pixel. You're making extraordinarily inaccurate attacks on the GrapheneOS project. We're absolutely working on building alternatives to the functionality provided by Google Play and much more. We're actively collaborating with other projects sharing the same goals and approach we have. Volla does not share our goals or approach.
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@Phobos1641 @vollaficationist @GrapheneOS nah man, it wasn't directed at you. I just sent it like cuz it felt ironic cuz Graphene was trying to explain what is wrong with Unified Attestation and the other person just didn't understand anything.
At the start, even I was similar to them and was thinking why does Graphene not join something that's open source and tied to some companies that promote privacy and stuff. Then heard of the squabbles between them both and then looked into, I wasted an entire day over it and I know not everyone can afford that kind of time for this. I was lucky to have an off day close to when I last had a similar argument with someone from the cult. After I read some of independent articles regarding /e/, I kinda understood what they are like but they are just anti big tech in a way but they are moving towards the same thing as big tech and Unified Attestation is lobbying in EU for it and there is always a price for it and when it comes due, the people lose.
@skywalker2k17 @Phobos1641 @GrapheneOS but who is this dude, or many dudes, being kind of omnipresent (look it up) all over social media, 24/7¿ For me, today was my first day. A little shocked.
Whatever, UA is open to anyone. And this fact is why the GOS dude is alleging, empty handed, that is illegal in Canada and EU. According to him/her it's probably globally illegal to contest googlag, right. You're welcome.
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@Phobos1641 @vollaficationist @GrapheneOS nah man, it wasn't directed at you. I just sent it like cuz it felt ironic cuz Graphene was trying to explain what is wrong with Unified Attestation and the other person just didn't understand anything.
At the start, even I was similar to them and was thinking why does Graphene not join something that's open source and tied to some companies that promote privacy and stuff. Then heard of the squabbles between them both and then looked into, I wasted an entire day over it and I know not everyone can afford that kind of time for this. I was lucky to have an off day close to when I last had a similar argument with someone from the cult. After I read some of independent articles regarding /e/, I kinda understood what they are like but they are just anti big tech in a way but they are moving towards the same thing as big tech and Unified Attestation is lobbying in EU for it and there is always a price for it and when it comes due, the people lose.
@Phobos1641 @vollaficationist @GrapheneOS just to make it clear, it wasn't meant to be offensive to the other person too. As someone who wants more GDPR compliant stuff, the idea seemed golden to me (at the start).
I only said it cuz I felt the irony funny in a weird way. And your win some, lose some doesn't particularly offend either party here (or offends both lol), cuz they both were backing their own point up and ultimately, it was an impasse. Graphene despite their best efforts couldn't convince the other party, the other party despite them trying didn't get what Graphene is trying to say and if they just want something not Google and something that belongs to EU to be in control, they are getting their wish too.
Graphene is saying, ultimately anyone having control is bad. It won't change cuz it's not Google and it's some other for-profit company. When EU's laws move towards surveillance, Unified Attestation will have to comply and their lobbyists will make sure they do.
