ahh, the HP 9133A - the largest and heaviest external 3 1/2" floppy drive ever built.
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@dgesswein , who authored the MFM emulator tool i am using for this task, reached out. i updated the software to the latest version (i was tragically out of date). got a new dump. only a few bad sectors this time, and none on track 0!
bad sectors were on tracks 37, 75, 113, and 152. the 9133a uses hardware partitioning to get four logical volumes, so these "bad sectors" are really just extra sectors at the end of each disk.
for posterity, the command i used was
./mfm_read --format Xebec_104527_C0_256B --sectors 32,0 --heads 4 --cylinders 153 --header_crc 0x0,0xa00805,32,2 --data_crc 0x0,0xa00805,32,2 --sector_length 256 --retries 50,4 --drive 1 --xebec_skew --begin_time 151000 --tran hp9133a_st506 --ext hp9133a_st506.bin
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bad sectors were on tracks 37, 75, 113, and 152. the 9133a uses hardware partitioning to get four logical volumes, so these "bad sectors" are really just extra sectors at the end of each disk.
for posterity, the command i used was
./mfm_read --format Xebec_104527_C0_256B --sectors 32,0 --heads 4 --cylinders 153 --header_crc 0x0,0xa00805,32,2 --data_crc 0x0,0xa00805,32,2 --sector_length 256 --retries 50,4 --drive 1 --xebec_skew --begin_time 151000 --tran hp9133a_st506 --ext hp9133a_st506.bin
'file' is superintelligent these days. it knows about LIF disks! looks like the binary data is good!
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'file' is superintelligent these days. it knows about LIF disks! looks like the binary data is good!
also the drive is running very smoothly now. a few days ago it was making horrible screeching sounds but i think that was the spindle bearing.
i've been running it upside down to allow the oil to warm up and drain back into the bearing.
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The fastest way to find out, is probably if you send me the image, but I can also walk you through the setup so you can run AA yourself.
(I've never finished the proper python packaging so it's a bit manual)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/home/eric/src_other/AutoArchaeologist/run_example.py", line 11, in <module>
from autoarchaeologist.container import argv
File "/home/eric/src_other/AutoArchaeologist/autoarchaeologist/container/argv.py", line 17, in <module>
import ddhf_bitstore_metadata
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'ddhf_bitstore_metadata' -
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/home/eric/src_other/AutoArchaeologist/run_example.py", line 11, in <module>
from autoarchaeologist.container import argv
File "/home/eric/src_other/AutoArchaeologist/autoarchaeologist/container/argv.py", line 17, in <module>
import ddhf_bitstore_metadata
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'ddhf_bitstore_metadata'Sorry forgot to mention that dependency, that repos is also on our codeberg account:
DDHF_bitstore_metadata
DDHF_bitstore_metadata - Metadata file handing for DDHF's bitarchive.
Codeberg.org (codeberg.org)
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also the drive is running very smoothly now. a few days ago it was making horrible screeching sounds but i think that was the spindle bearing.
i've been running it upside down to allow the oil to warm up and drain back into the bearing.
People used to laugh when I said I'd fixed their squealing hard drive by oiling it.
Seagate used to have a grounding strip that sat atop a bearing on the end of the spindle (outside the drive) and at a push you could apply some graphite from a soft pencil to stop it being noisy.
Happy days.
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yeah all the heads are stuck. trying a heat gun now...
@tubetime Had a disk that was working great and the next day, it wouldn't start. Tried a few things with no success. Bought a new one, cleaned up the surroundings as best as I could, opened the lid a little & tried not to get any dust in there, helped the motor a bit and it was up & running again, I could copy the whole content. As an experiment I left it running, monitoring the errors. After 2 weeks, they started increasing. Not unexpected when you've been to HDD plant's clean rooms.
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@tubetime Had a disk that was working great and the next day, it wouldn't start. Tried a few things with no success. Bought a new one, cleaned up the surroundings as best as I could, opened the lid a little & tried not to get any dust in there, helped the motor a bit and it was up & running again, I could copy the whole content. As an experiment I left it running, monitoring the errors. After 2 weeks, they started increasing. Not unexpected when you've been to HDD plant's clean rooms.
@tubetime So my take for anybody reading this and tempted to open their HDD: don't, unless you are curious & about to toss it or desperate for the data. In the later case, if it works to make it spin again, be ready to export all data ASAP. Just about any dust is larger than the distance the heads fly above the disks, thus scratches to the magnetic surface are a given when anything gets trapped in between. There are reasons for cleanrooms, coveralls, air showers... during manufacturing.
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@nblr @tubetime Probably regular disks? But the earliest ones (I think just the OA-D30V but I’m not sure) used disks with a latching shutter. https://www.jamiecraig.com/early-floppy-disks/
I’m pretty sure there was never a flippable 3.5” disk.
@bytex64 yes, those are the disks I remember from the early desktops that my dad's HP dealership sold
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Sorry forgot to mention that dependency, that repos is also on our codeberg account:
DDHF_bitstore_metadata
DDHF_bitstore_metadata - Metadata file handing for DDHF's bitarchive.
Codeberg.org (codeberg.org)
@bsdphk ahh that solved it. new issue though, it looks like this hard drive image has 4 volumes but each has lifver set to 0, and the volume header is missing the track, head, and sector count fields, triggering a bug:
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@bsdphk ahh that solved it. new issue though, it looks like this hard drive image has 4 volumes but each has lifver set to 0, and the volume header is missing the track, head, and sector count fields, triggering a bug:
@bsdphk if you want to experiment, i put the whole disk image here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aTSBuvYilyCwlMffqJVZQTnmUwSarSrB/view?usp=sharing
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also the drive is running very smoothly now. a few days ago it was making horrible screeching sounds but i think that was the spindle bearing.
i've been running it upside down to allow the oil to warm up and drain back into the bearing.
digging around on this drive, i've found a bunch of software for the HP-85, including a program designed to control the HP 5005B Signature Multimeter. presumably none of this stuff has ever been preserved before.
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@bsdphk if you want to experiment, i put the whole disk image here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aTSBuvYilyCwlMffqJVZQTnmUwSarSrB/view?usp=sharing
@bsdphk David Gesswein pointed out to me by email that this image file has a software interleave of 9 and each track has a spare sector 31 which contains just a fill pattern and can be ignored. so that might explain some of the parsing difficulties.
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@bsdphk if you want to experiment, i put the whole disk image here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aTSBuvYilyCwlMffqJVZQTnmUwSarSrB/view?usp=sharing
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@bsdphk David Gesswein pointed out to me by email that this image file has a software interleave of 9 and each track has a spare sector 31 which contains just a fill pattern and can be ignored. so that might explain some of the parsing difficulties.
Ok, figured the interleave out:
Now we just need an examiner for the AutoArchaeologist to list the HP-BASIC programs
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People used to laugh when I said I'd fixed their squealing hard drive by oiling it.
Seagate used to have a grounding strip that sat atop a bearing on the end of the spindle (outside the drive) and at a push you could apply some graphite from a soft pencil to stop it being noisy.
Happy days.
@linker3000 I once had an HP calculator with a magnetic card reader. When the cards got dirty, you cleaned them with a pencil eraser.
Linux's knowledge of file formats can be investigated with
$ strings /usr/share/file/magic.mgc | more
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Ok, figured the interleave out:
Now we just need an examiner for the AutoArchaeologist to list the HP-BASIC programs
Hmm, i think there's still something not quite right about the interleave: I'm seeing too much 0x6d 0xb6 in places it should not be.
Or maybe there is a bad-block remapping we need to figure out.
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Hmm, i think there's still something not quite right about the interleave: I'm seeing too much 0x6d 0xb6 in places it should not be.
Or maybe there is a bad-block remapping we need to figure out.
Ok, I think I got it now.
The interleave is:
[0, 9, 18, 27, 4, 13, 22, 8, 17, 26, 3, 12, 21, 30, 7, 16, 25, 2, 11, 20, 29, 6, 15, 24, 1, 10, 19, 28, 5, 14]
I've also added a very rudimentary BASIC-detokenizer (git pull to get it), and updated the output here:
(Bedtime in Denmark now
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digging around on this drive, i've found a bunch of software for the HP-85, including a program designed to control the HP 5005B Signature Multimeter. presumably none of this stuff has ever been preserved before.
huh, i reconnected everything and plugged the drive into my HP85, and it actually works! i can read the files on it.
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huh, i reconnected everything and plugged the drive into my HP85, and it actually works! i can read the files on it.
one of the programs.
