Hey paperwork designers, you do realize that when you ask about sex at birth, trans people are just going to lie on your paperwork, right?

[jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange]

Hey paperwork designers, you do realize that when you ask about sex at birth, trans people are just going to lie on your paperwork, right?

[nyanbinary@infosec.exchange]

@JessTheUnstill waaat, folx lying on forms? I'd never

[jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange]

"Oh no, you found my one weakness! I'm compelled to out myself if you append "sex at birth" to a paperwork form!"

[mloxton@zeroes.ca]

@JessTheUnstill
True, but if I am designing paperwork and I ask for sex at birth, I am asking for a medical reason, because if a man has ovaries, that can be a really important fact in diagnosis, and if a woman used to have testes and no longer does, that too has implications for diagnosis.

So, I hope like crazy they aren't lying, because that would mess with testing and diagnostics in a bad way

[jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange]

@mloxton Not all people who were born women have ovaries either.

[jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange]

@mloxton if presence or absence of ovaries is important, ask about ovaries

[cordiallychloe@tech.lgbt]

@mloxton @JessTheUnstill

I will lie every single time because my assigned sex actually says nothing about my current body.

My hormones are female. My genitals are female. My body is female.

If you treat me as my sex assigned at birth, you could actually kill me.

[celestiallavendar@icedoatmilk.coffee]

@JessTheUnstill@infosec.exchange Yeah but then they make lying on the form a federal offense with minimum 5 year jail time and only use the ruling to prosecute trans people that didn't put down their birth sex.

It's really a benefit for them, because either you comply and build their dataset for them or you don't and they get to imprison another bad trans when they figure it out.

[tessarakt@mastodon.social]

@JessTheUnstill In which contexts would that be legal to ask?

[petterofcats@mastodon.world]

@JessTheUnstill I always say “none, I was underage… pervert”

[infosecfemthing@infosec.exchange]

@PetterOfCats haha, good one

[ladytel@masto.hackers.town]

@JessTheUnstill I always say "that's a complicated question for me because my birth certificate was updated so..."

[emma_cogdev@fediscience.org]

@JessTheUnstill

Also, like, I could guess but I don't know for sure I've got ovaries. If that's important for medical diagnosis, surely I'm not the one who should be figuring it out!

[mloxton@zeroes.ca]

@JessTheUnstill

Good point, but "sex at birth" has a ton of medical implications, and it would take a LOT more effort (which is certainly called for) to list all the critical things one would need to specify.

e.g. "have you ever had ... ovaries, testes, prostate, breasts, ..."

I guess it was a bad idea all along to assume stuff from "assigned sex at birth", and we, as medical professionals need to rethink how we determine risk and how we ask

[mloxton@zeroes.ca]

@JessTheUnstill

Right, but if you were born without them, then they aren't a risk

[jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange]

@mloxton then I'll add - you can scold me all you want, but trans people in general are still going to lie on paperwork where they don't feel it's that particular party's business what their birth gender was. I'm likely to give a different answer to a nurse or doctor in an exam room who explains what they're using that info for than I am a generic patient intake form.

Furthermore, "what sex are you" can be different for the same exact trans person in a doctor's office depending on how this information is being used.

What letter do I have on my ID? And which ID - state vs federal vs birth certificate vs social security
What letter does my insurance have on file for me
What hormones do I run on now
What hormones have I run on in the past
What organs do I have now
What organs have I had in the past
What pronouns do I want people to talk to me as

All mixed with the question of "will I still be treated with care and respect if I out myself to strangers?"

And that's a big fuckin unknown scary question for any trans person going to a doctor for the first time when they hand you a clipboard with "what's your sex at birth"?