677: I Accept the Battery Costhttps://atp.fm/677
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@siracusa but adding AI on top of our current energy needs is just irresponsible. At this point. Even without AI we are damaging the planet beyond repair. We are burning to planet to generate fake narratives.
Plus we didn’t steal everyone’s stuff to make electricity. And electricity doesn’t lie.
AI is a curiousity, not a necessity for a decent life like electricity is. You want to use it, but the whole ethical justification is flimsy. And AI is not inevitable
@vmachiel Electricity was also initially seen as "a curiosity, not a necessity." It was also not seen by everyone as "inevitable." Hindsight is 20/20.
As for "stealing," we have many precedents, both good and bad, in this area, from the printing press to player pianos to VCRs to fonts to APIs. Sometimes we come up with a pretty OK system, and sometimes we end up making things worse. But the basic questions of ownership and compensation in the face of new tech is very old and recurring.
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@vmachiel Electricity was also initially seen as "a curiosity, not a necessity." It was also not seen by everyone as "inevitable." Hindsight is 20/20.
As for "stealing," we have many precedents, both good and bad, in this area, from the printing press to player pianos to VCRs to fonts to APIs. Sometimes we come up with a pretty OK system, and sometimes we end up making things worse. But the basic questions of ownership and compensation in the face of new tech is very old and recurring.
@vmachiel And as for the environmental impact of AI's energy usage, despite the fact that it is somewhat overblown as a percentage of total human energy use, it surely will be a short-term problem. And I'd argue that crypto mining (a much more clearcut case of harm with little practical use) shows we are not good at dealing with things like this. But advances in *other* tech (renewable energy) does give me some hope.
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@vmachiel And as for the environmental impact of AI's energy usage, despite the fact that it is somewhat overblown as a percentage of total human energy use, it surely will be a short-term problem. And I'd argue that crypto mining (a much more clearcut case of harm with little practical use) shows we are not good at dealing with things like this. But advances in *other* tech (renewable energy) does give me some hope.
@siracusa I just wish we spend those energy gains on useful stuff, not making fake videos to mislead boomers
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@siracusa I just wish we spend those energy gains on useful stuff, not making fake videos to mislead boomers
@vmachiel Oh, and as for things stolen for electricity specifically, we stole a ton stuff for the resources used to generate power: people’s land, resources, freedom, and lives!
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@vmachiel Oh, and as for things stolen for electricity specifically, we stole a ton stuff for the resources used to generate power: people’s land, resources, freedom, and lives!
@siracusa all this is true.. and it doesn’t excuse anything about AI imo. Just because it was true for electricity, doesn’t mean we should just plow ahead with AI…
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@atpfm Waze interface while the tiles are dated, as more Applely notably in CarPlay where most will interact with it. Google interface is still very much Android. So I still find myself jumping between the three. Hopefully eventually all traffic incidents from Waze show up in Google, and the UI gets a bit more refined, then could see myself using that fully even if far less enjoyable than Apple Maps, the other benefits would probably make it worth it.
@TechRemarker @atpfm I’d love for Google Maps to be able to take over the Home Screen the way Apple Maps does. This would be especially helpful for navigation on foot or by bicycle. Aside from a nicer UI and better system integration, that’s probably the only reason I still try Apple Maps from time to time.
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@siracusa all this is true.. and it doesn’t excuse anything about AI imo. Just because it was true for electricity, doesn’t mean we should just plow ahead with AI…
@vmachiel Like electricity, AI will (eventually) live or die based on the ratio of its usefulness to its harm. Crypto mining lives on because it’s useful for crime and blackmail and speculation, but it seems like it will never reach the mass market in the way that, say, smartphones have.
I think AI is already more useful than crypto, and it also has a much better use-to-harm ratio. Your opinion depends on your own estimate of those use and harm values.
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@atpfm Waze interface while the tiles are dated, as more Applely notably in CarPlay where most will interact with it. Google interface is still very much Android. So I still find myself jumping between the three. Hopefully eventually all traffic incidents from Waze show up in Google, and the UI gets a bit more refined, then could see myself using that fully even if far less enjoyable than Apple Maps, the other benefits would probably make it worth it.
@TechRemarker @atpfm That being said, since Google added support for Live Activities and implemented “getting directions without starting navigation,” I think they’ve out-Apple’d Apple in terms of convenience and ease of use for both walking and cycling navigation. Which, admittedly, is probably an edge case for many Americans.
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@siracusa I just wish we spend those energy gains on useful stuff, not making fake videos to mislead boomers
@vmachiel @siracusa AI is already tremendously useful for a large number of people. Yes, there are many concrete and hypothetical drawbacks, but even if none of the promised upsides ever materialize and even if models never improve beyond today’s level – it is still immensely useful. Collapsing all of that into “useless” is simply not true.
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677: I Accept the Battery Cost
https://atp.fm/677If you really don’t like AI, we have some bad news for you.
@atpfm Not looking good. @marcoarment turning to the dark side. What happened to "Think different”?
@Casey having a meltdown against the rest of the world, and we are losing @siracusa to the Borg… -
@vmachiel And as for the environmental impact of AI's energy usage, despite the fact that it is somewhat overblown as a percentage of total human energy use, it surely will be a short-term problem. And I'd argue that crypto mining (a much more clearcut case of harm with little practical use) shows we are not good at dealing with things like this. But advances in *other* tech (renewable energy) does give me some hope.
@siracusa @vmachiel Energy usage is also often overstated. Nobody is arguing that AI does not consume energy, or that aggregate demand does not add up. But this has to be evaluated in relation to the use and that it is spread across hundreds of millions of users. When broken down per individual and compared with what a typical Western European or American uses energy for, AI usage is negligible.
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@atpfm Not looking good. @marcoarment turning to the dark side. What happened to "Think different”?
@Casey having a meltdown against the rest of the world, and we are losing @siracusa to the Borg…@pfernandes @atpfm @Casey @siracusa I think at this point, reevaluating some non-Apple options after years of using Apple's offerings nearly exclusively IS ”thinking different”.
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@pfernandes @atpfm @Casey @siracusa I think at this point, reevaluating some non-Apple options after years of using Apple's offerings nearly exclusively IS ”thinking different”.
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@atpfm The bad news about so-called AI (and LLMs aren’t really AI) is already known. From the real bad things like pollution of people’s air, and loss of water, through job loses, stolen data, right down to pure greed causing the RAM apocalypse.
It can write some code or can hallucinate some plausible answers doesn’t counter the damage done.
@lordsplodge @atpfm Honestly same. We're about to enter the world's first water crisis due to AI. To use it is completely amoral, and to encourage it is just....disappointing. We should be moving away from AI and treating it like the fad that it is, relegated to the likes of NFTs and crypto. Nobody should be embracing it. Not to mention it severely impacts intelligence and mental health. We've already seen people literally stop working due to a Claude code outage - you really want everyone to get dumber due to AI? Go ahead I guess...
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@lordsplodge @atpfm Honestly same. We're about to enter the world's first water crisis due to AI. To use it is completely amoral, and to encourage it is just....disappointing. We should be moving away from AI and treating it like the fad that it is, relegated to the likes of NFTs and crypto. Nobody should be embracing it. Not to mention it severely impacts intelligence and mental health. We've already seen people literally stop working due to a Claude code outage - you really want everyone to get dumber due to AI? Go ahead I guess...
@USBTypeSTeve Estimating AI water usage is not straightforward https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_c6MWk7PQc But if/when we do enter a "water crisis" (really the "world's first"?) I'm currently inclined to blame climate change (and politics) rather than AI.
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677: I Accept the Battery Cost
https://atp.fm/677If you really don’t like AI, we have some bad news for you.
@atpfm The argument that because Celsius has decimal units it already lost is not bery good, come on. Pretty much nobody uses decimal units when measuring air temperature because it doesn’t make sense. We cannot feel the difference and it is going to be different in another side of the same room anyway. The thermostats that let you set half units are likely converting to Fahrenheit.
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677: I Accept the Battery Cost
https://atp.fm/677If you really don’t like AI, we have some bad news for you.
@atpfm This Celsius rant was so stupid, I wonder how many brain cells were collectively lost across all ATP listeners.
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677: I Accept the Battery Cost
https://atp.fm/677If you really don’t like AI, we have some bad news for you.
@atpfm "We don't have a choice. This is here. This is happening. It's happening with or without us…You can be a part of it or you can fall behind…You kinda have to get on board." is really fucking disgusting and indistinguishable from the bullshit spewed by crypto/NFT bros or every other propaganda pusher for the last several decades.
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@atpfm "We don't have a choice. This is here. This is happening. It's happening with or without us…You can be a part of it or you can fall behind…You kinda have to get on board." is really fucking disgusting and indistinguishable from the bullshit spewed by crypto/NFT bros or every other propaganda pusher for the last several decades.
@atpfm
Also: "we discuss the downsides and negatives"When exactly? It's been months of nothing but Marco pushing OpenAI chatbots or John pushing Claude etc. Gonna discuss any of the lawsuits against OpenAI or vibecoding killing open source, or continuing environmental destruction, or nah?
OpenAI faces 7 lawsuits claiming ChatGPT drove people to suicide, delusions
OpenAI is facing seven lawsuits claiming ChatGPT drove people to suicide and harmful delusions even when they had no prior mental health issues.
AP News (apnews.com)
Vibe Coding Is Killing Open Source Software, Researchers Argue
‘If the maintainers of small projects give up, who will produce the next Linux?’
404 Media (www.404media.co)
Overrun with AI slop, cURL scraps bug bounties to ensure "intact mental health"
The onslaught includes LLMs finding bogus vulnerabilities and code that won't compile.
Ars Technica (arstechnica.com)
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@atpfm "We don't have a choice. This is here. This is happening. It's happening with or without us…You can be a part of it or you can fall behind…You kinda have to get on board." is really fucking disgusting and indistinguishable from the bullshit spewed by crypto/NFT bros or every other propaganda pusher for the last several decades.
@Bachus Though I didn’t say that and I don’t believe that, I do think AI will turn out differently than crypto and NFTs. Don’t you?
