677: I Accept the Battery Costhttps://atp.fm/677
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677: I Accept the Battery Cost
https://atp.fm/677If you really don’t like AI, we have some bad news for you.
@atpfm The AI ethics section hurt to listen to.
The industrial revolution example: that may yet lead to the end of habitability for large parts of our planet. The negative externalities affecting people right now are presumably not affecting you all that much yet. “There are huge downsides yes, but we need it for our work” does not feel like an ethical argument when you are well-respected folks with an audience, and when these companies have done absolutely nothing in good faith. I’m sorry. -
@vmachiel Many people do think about it, including me! And we all should.
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well on one hand we have a coming financial collapse, mass layoffs, and an ecological disaster cheered on by and enriching the most deranged lunatics in the world.
but at least llms write fantastic, creative code that saves time and is verifiably more secure, and they don't burn dumpsters of money doing a middling job at most things. seems like everyone is just making a mountain out of a mole hill
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677: I Accept the Battery Cost
https://atp.fm/677If you really don’t like AI, we have some bad news for you.
@atpfm I propose the following one true conversion system.
1 mile = 1.5km
1 lb = 0.5kg (always round down to the nearest significant digit) i.e. both 20 and 21lb = 10kg, 350lb = 170kg
75f = 25c (minus 25 and divide by 2 - always round down. 80f also = 25c. Minutes 30 for oven temperature) -
@atpfm The AI ethics section hurt to listen to.
The industrial revolution example: that may yet lead to the end of habitability for large parts of our planet. The negative externalities affecting people right now are presumably not affecting you all that much yet. “There are huge downsides yes, but we need it for our work” does not feel like an ethical argument when you are well-respected folks with an audience, and when these companies have done absolutely nothing in good faith. I’m sorry.@mpbarlow I think I made all the points you mentioned regarding the industrial revolution on the show. Presumably you also use electricity, manufactured products, etc., despite climate change and other ongoing negative externalities. There's no ethical consumption under capitalism.
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@mpbarlow I think I made all the points you mentioned regarding the industrial revolution on the show. Presumably you also use electricity, manufactured products, etc., despite climate change and other ongoing negative externalities. There's no ethical consumption under capitalism.
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@Colman So will you, and everyone else, eventually—for better AND for worse. (See also: electricity, automobiles, modern agriculture, manufactured goods of all kinds, etc.)
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@atpfm I propose the following one true conversion system.
1 mile = 1.5km
1 lb = 0.5kg (always round down to the nearest significant digit) i.e. both 20 and 21lb = 10kg, 350lb = 170kg
75f = 25c (minus 25 and divide by 2 - always round down. 80f also = 25c. Minutes 30 for oven temperature) -
@avakining @mpbarlow I'm not giving up!
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@mpbarlow I think I made all the points you mentioned regarding the industrial revolution on the show. Presumably you also use electricity, manufactured products, etc., despite climate change and other ongoing negative externalities. There's no ethical consumption under capitalism.
@siracusa I do, but I was born a hundred+ years after those things became an essential part of life.
AI’s not there yet, and I don’t fancy helping it along the way when the people pushing it have neither a plan nor a care to address the problems they openly talk about causing.
I realise I’m being hopelessly naive. I’m just sick of the rich getting richer and the rest of us always having to deal with the fallout.
Anyway, I’ll stop now. Thanks for continuing to make my favourite podcast.
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@jamesnvc @mpbarlow It's barely a choice now, and will be less so as time goes on. (Do you know how many LLMs are active and doing work for you when you use software products and services today? How could you?)
Also, "LLMs" are not inherently immoral or evil. Using, say, image generation in Photoshop using an Adobe model trained exclusively on licensed data is very different than, say, creating nonconsensual sexual abuse material with Grok.
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@avakining @atpfm I never knew the golden ratio was exactly 1.5 🤯 you learn something new every day
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677: I Accept the Battery Cost
https://atp.fm/677If you really don’t like AI, we have some bad news for you.
@atpfm Always her for team fahrenheit.
️It's good to use the browser that works best for you so not shame there. I'm forced to use Chrome at work and I use Safari at home. I would say my experience is largely the opposite.
However, I’m using content blockers. Is it a slight cheat removing the problem? Maybe, but I wouldn't call the Chrome experience on an ad heavy website great but even if was, so much of the web is ugly and hard to read with the ads. I just would choose to avoid the web tbh
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@jamesnvc @mpbarlow It's barely a choice now, and will be less so as time goes on. (Do you know how many LLMs are active and doing work for you when you use software products and services today? How could you?)
Also, "LLMs" are not inherently immoral or evil. Using, say, image generation in Photoshop using an Adobe model trained exclusively on licensed data is very different than, say, creating nonconsensual sexual abuse material with Grok.
@siracusa @mpbarlow I respectfully disagree, both that it is “barely a choice now”, as well as that believing the choice will decline in the future is a reason to “comply in advance”.
I am also not claiming that they are “inherently” immoral, but I’m talking about all the specific instances that are really being used now, which I’d argue largely are.
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@mpbarlow I think I made all the points you mentioned regarding the industrial revolution on the show. Presumably you also use electricity, manufactured products, etc., despite climate change and other ongoing negative externalities. There's no ethical consumption under capitalism.
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@jamesnvc @mpbarlow It's barely a choice now, and will be less so as time goes on. (Do you know how many LLMs are active and doing work for you when you use software products and services today? How could you?)
Also, "LLMs" are not inherently immoral or evil. Using, say, image generation in Photoshop using an Adobe model trained exclusively on licensed data is very different than, say, creating nonconsensual sexual abuse material with Grok.
@siracusa @jamesnvc @mpbarlow
I think for most of us here, when we say we're opposed to “AI” we're not referring to its use where appropriate and useful (e.g. computational photography, etc.) but to the way it's being hyped up to maintain the stock market valuation bubble and to destroy countless jobs that it can't effectively replace—not to mention how it will lead to AI slop destroying the web.As with industrialization, the main issue is not the tech, but how its benefits are distributed.
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@siracusa @jamesnvc @mpbarlow
I think for most of us here, when we say we're opposed to “AI” we're not referring to its use where appropriate and useful (e.g. computational photography, etc.) but to the way it's being hyped up to maintain the stock market valuation bubble and to destroy countless jobs that it can't effectively replace—not to mention how it will lead to AI slop destroying the web.As with industrialization, the main issue is not the tech, but how its benefits are distributed.
@freediverx I wouldn’t be so sure you have your finger on the pulse of “most” of anyone. A lot of people object to a lot more than that when it comes to AI!
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@siracusa @mpbarlow I respectfully disagree, both that it is “barely a choice now”, as well as that believing the choice will decline in the future is a reason to “comply in advance”.
I am also not claiming that they are “inherently” immoral, but I’m talking about all the specific instances that are really being used now, which I’d argue largely are.
@jamesnvc The only “compliance” required will be your continued use of technology products and services. Even today, there are few tech products and services that are not using ethically dubious LLMs without your knowledge or consent. That’s why I say “barely a choice” today.
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@freediverx I wouldn’t be so sure you have your finger on the pulse of “most” of anyone. A lot of people object to a lot more than that when it comes to AI!
@siracusa
Fair enough. Wouldn't be the first time I had mistaken assumptions about how “most" people think, lol.I can't find it now but I recently saw the perfect meme showing robots inside an apartment building creating music and art while the humans outside were collecting garbage and performing other less desirable jobs.
We were promised The Jetsons but capital had something else in mind.
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677: I Accept the Battery Cost
https://atp.fm/677If you really don’t like AI, we have some bad news for you.
@atpfm could Marco please list all jobs where an expertise in using LLM’s will be a prerequisite? Also, if he could list these jobs where LLM’s have made a ‘huge’ impact on staff numbers? Thanks in advance…
