I've been thinking about this thread (link goes to final post) and its idea of a "Capital Strike" a lot for the last couple weeks.
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RE: https://hachyderm.io/@jenniferplusplus/116127090589590254
I've been thinking about this thread (link goes to final post) and its idea of a "Capital Strike" a lot for the last couple weeks. I'm still not sure if it works in the details (things I struggle with: is any of this intentional? is Jennifer attempting to suggest it is intentional? is "intentionality" a concept which can be ascribed to billionaires?) but in general strokes I think it's touched on something important
@mcc I don't think intentionality really matters. Clearly a lot of the people dumping billions of their own dollars unto AI are true believers. Whether or not there is some group intentionally pushing for a capital strike behind them or not, the effect is the same so the model is useful.
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@mcc maybe start with getting the ontario teachers pension fund to stop putting money into datacenters in the emirates
@bob I think it would be incredible if I could influence Ontario politics in any way
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@mcc maybe start with getting the ontario teachers pension fund to stop putting money into datacenters in the emirates
@mcc literally they're bailing out private credit firms that are heavily invested in datacenters (and so is calpers) https://feed.hella.cheap/@bob/statuses/01KK72GFW7NRYE6Z0NEDAG6MYX
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@BabblingGeek Should we treat "malice" and "rampant greed" as two different things? If so, why?
@mcc @BabblingGeek rampant greed is like a scaled version of prioritizing your own interests. It is to a degree relatable, I mean "I" am prioritizing my own interests a lot of the time. Malice is more like sabotaging others, without necessarily gaining something out of it. I would very much prefer to work or deal with a rampantly greedy person than a malicious one. Some people are both...
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@BabblingGeek Should we treat "malice" and "rampant greed" as two different things? If so, why?
@mcc practically? Probably not. That's why greed is explicitly named as wicked in at least some faith traditions.*
But philosophically I reckon those are different domains. Unless you state categorically that greed is evil, one can consider it orthogonal to ethics, and therefore not malicious (which is an ethical term afai understand).* Ex. https://www.sefaria.org/English_Explanation_of_Pirkei_Avot.5.10
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@emaytch great monuments in space. it is no longer so expensive to build a great stone edifice, we have concrete. so to prove you are so exorbitantly wealthy you can expend it on a proof of your own wastefulness, you put your monuments in space. that is what the "data centers" are
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@mcc I don't think intentionality really matters. Clearly a lot of the people dumping billions of their own dollars unto AI are true believers. Whether or not there is some group intentionally pushing for a capital strike behind them or not, the effect is the same so the model is useful.
@wrosecrans I don't think intentionality would look like a conscious decision or conspiracy. I think it would look like "the masses are useless eaters, so let's instead put the money into creating something that will serve me better in future than those filthy *humans* who keep striking and accusing me of sexual harassment". You don't need to say it out loud, if you can exist in a space that's awash in such unvoiced sentiment (altho some ppl seemed happy to voice ideas like that to, uh, Epstein)
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@mcc literally they're bailing out private credit firms that are heavily invested in datacenters (and so is calpers) https://feed.hella.cheap/@bob/statuses/01KK72GFW7NRYE6Z0NEDAG6MYX
@bob i am sad to say i am unsurprised about this
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@mcc literally they're bailing out private credit firms that are heavily invested in datacenters (and so is calpers) https://feed.hella.cheap/@bob/statuses/01KK72GFW7NRYE6Z0NEDAG6MYX
@mcc I think a thing that's really important that most people don't understand is that in the current era almost all capital isn't directed by capitalists, it's directed by PMC managers
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@mcc I think a thing that's really important that most people don't understand is that in the current era almost all capital isn't directed by capitalists, it's directed by PMC managers
@bob is the suggestion here that "PMC"s do not have ideology
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@bob is the suggestion here that "PMC"s do not have ideology
@mcc oh no they absolutely do but it isn't the one that marxists traditionally ascribe to capital
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@mcc to be clear, yes, I believe it's intentional
That said, I've also thought about it a few times since then. I'm not sure strike is the appropriate diagnosis anymore. I think it has escalated
@jenniferplusplus @mcc what is the escalation from capital strike?
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@jenniferplusplus @mcc what is the escalation from capital strike?
@ahoyboyhoy @jenniferplusplus capital out
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I need to stress I have no interest in ascribing intentionality anywhere. I don't think CEOtier capitalists are thoughtful people, and they're currently investing hard in technologies that encourage thinking even less. You can explain this as money itself moving like water. An opportunity to steal appeared and it was taken. There was nothing to do with the money afterward, so it was expended in the only way capital systems can use it (build great golden idols rather than let it trickle downward)
@mcc (i can't see the followers only post you were replying to so I'm replying here instead) waste as a show of wealth and power reminds me of the odd thing I've heard from a friend working at nvidia right now, which is that they seem to have a lot of people whose entire job is to be the minimally involved human supervising "claude" in the task of extruding software, and they're paid obscene amounts of money for it
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@mcc (i can't see the followers only post you were replying to so I'm replying here instead) waste as a show of wealth and power reminds me of the odd thing I've heard from a friend working at nvidia right now, which is that they seem to have a lot of people whose entire job is to be the minimally involved human supervising "claude" in the task of extruding software, and they're paid obscene amounts of money for it
@mcc billionaires don't share, so i assume there must be some other reason for it
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@mcc billionaires don't share, so i assume there must be some other reason for it
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@mcc oh no they absolutely do but it isn't the one that marxists traditionally ascribe to capital
@mcc the blue owl deal is a really good example. blue owl makes a bunch of shaky investments but doesn't mark losses because they're illiquid, tries to dump them on the public market, public market doesn't want to buy, so they dump them on public sector pension funds instead. the pension fund managers and the managers at places like blue owl have close relationships, and because the funds are illiquid they never have to admit they lost money (unless it gets to the point that the fund is actually unable to pay out to retirees). pension fund managers get their bonuses, private credit fund managers get to stay in business, no on else is the wiser (except for weirdos who read bloomberg)
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@mcc the blue owl deal is a really good example. blue owl makes a bunch of shaky investments but doesn't mark losses because they're illiquid, tries to dump them on the public market, public market doesn't want to buy, so they dump them on public sector pension funds instead. the pension fund managers and the managers at places like blue owl have close relationships, and because the funds are illiquid they never have to admit they lost money (unless it gets to the point that the fund is actually unable to pay out to retirees). pension fund managers get their bonuses, private credit fund managers get to stay in business, no on else is the wiser (except for weirdos who read bloomberg)
@mcc and even if the pension fund blows up the other major pension funds are doing the same thing so they can just blame "the macro environment" and demographics
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@jenniferplusplus @mcc what is the escalation from capital strike?
coup?
Rebellion?
Maybe hostage standoff?A strike is an extreme bargaining tactic, but it's still taken within the boundaries of a system. It's part of a demand for concessions. But they're not bargaining anymore. They're not satisfied with concessions. They're violently coercing our subservience.
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coup?
Rebellion?
Maybe hostage standoff?A strike is an extreme bargaining tactic, but it's still taken within the boundaries of a system. It's part of a demand for concessions. But they're not bargaining anymore. They're not satisfied with concessions. They're violently coercing our subservience.
@jenniferplusplus @ahoyboyhoy So as a note, and without specifically agreeing or disagreeing with anything in your thread:
A concept i've been working with for a while is that some of these startups— Uber, Spotify— are not "businesses". They're more like the economic version of *terraforming plants*. They're not intended to make money, or at least, not to make back the money they spent in being created. They are wealth being consumed in order to provoke a change in society which someone wanted.
