I would like to give an update on "federation" on Bluesky.

[oblomov@sociale.network]

t yet

@mcc @ratsnakegames

[mcc@mastodon.social]

@lrhodes Depends on how you do it I imagine. But remember that's several terabytes for the like what, three years or something Bluesky has been running. We will expect it to grow endlessly, and we should expect the growth to grow endlessly as Bluesky becomes more popular.

[hallvors@oslo.town]

@mcc sad stuff Thanks for the history lesson and analysis.

[emergencygg@sakurajima.social]

@poswald@mastodon.social @mcc@mastodon.social This is a really unfortunate thing in the Bluesky UI not using OAuth yet. It looks like there is a PR work in progress for it, but it hasn't seen activity in a few months: -> https://github.com/bluesky-social/social-app/pull/8665
You might want to use a different client in the meantime and set the appview to blacksky's.

[mcc@mastodon.social]

@poswald It's weird! It's one of a dozen things in the design of bluesky that makes it clear bluesky only ever intended for anyone to use the bluesky services and the federation was either a "look at our party trick" or an idea they abandoned very early

[saulojacques@mastodon.social]

@mcc a in terms of DB replication could it be kind of Scuttlebutt, but with VC backing them? hehehe

[jaycalixto@mastodon.online]

@mcc People love to call the fediverse hard and complicated but ATProto looks so overengineered to me

[nemobis@mamot.fr]

@mcc Nice! I seem to recall a prediction that ATProto would slowly evolve to become closer to ActivityPub because the supposed "bugs" of the fediverse are actually features to make it manageable. Eventually, once they strip it of all its oddities, they may be able to reimplement BS in ActivityPub.

#FediMeta

[katzenberger@tldr.nettime.org]

@mcc

If I'm not completely mistaken, any community on a social network that longs for a competent moderation, and wants to avoid the risk of their platform being pulled away from under their feet, needs to take things into their own hands.

It might be hosted by another community, but insisting on its own needs may create conflict, and a perception of it coming up with whataboutisms, on the hosting platform.

The Fediverse answer is to spin up a community-focused server.

Am I completely mistaken thinking that the ATProto answer is, ultimately, to take running an instance of the complete stack into its own hands?

Still struggling to understand how many communities would have the stamina to do it this way, compared to, lets say, firing up its own Mastodon instance and be good.

What am I missing?

[mcc@mastodon.social]

@katzenberger Bluesky has a concept of a "labeler" or "composable moderation". Without running the entire stack, you can run a server that "adds" moderation. Someone can subscribe to your "labeler", and anyone you've modded as banned or "allowed, but apply a clickthrough warning on their posts" shows up as modded that way to your subscriber. Bluesky PBLLC believes this fixes all problems. They think they can do flippant moderation, and anyone who wants more moderation can layer it on themselves.

[mcc@mastodon.social]

@katzenberger In practice, I think this does not work, and Bluesky PBLLC is abdicating duty. There are several problems with the approach.

1. The labeler concept is *additive*, not *subtractive*. You cannot unsubscribe from Bluesky's default moderation server UNLESS you create your own, complete, stack…

2. …and MANY of the default moderation decisions are weird.

3. The "3000 friends" problem; someone moderated by a labeler can easily recruit people not yet "labeled" from Bluesky's larger pool

[rakoo@blah.rako.space]

@mcc @katzenberger

4. It still doesn't prevent bluesky from seeing everything that is happening, which is how tech companies make money. I'm pretty sure this is by design

[eliot_l@social.coop]

@mcc @coracinho @falken This is the best writeup on bluesky's decentralization I've seen which gets very in the weeds. Christine is an expert on decentralized communication and one of the authors of the ActivityPub spec that powers fedi so I don't think you'll find a better analysis
https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/

[liaizon@social.wake.st]

@mcc @gbargoud cc'ing @gabboman who has integrated bluesky and blacksky and activitypub into one timeline/account on #WAFRN

[gabboman@gabboman.xyz]

This post is 4 months old hehe.

At this moment we are making our own red dwarf style post fetching, wich is done directly on the PDS

[whattheflux@app.wafrn.net]

Worth noting that Blacksky has a unique lineage from Black Twitter. Rudy mentions in interviews that he wasn't much of a social media user before starting work on Blacksky and, if I recall right, didn't know much about Twitter or the community there.

[mcc@mastodon.social]

@whattheflux This is true but the thing is what makes blacksky blacksky is the broader community, if he wasn't acting in concert with a community rudy would just be Northsky

[emmatebibyte@app.wafrn.net]

is there any chance you know where i could find such a patch?

[mcc@mastodon.social]

@emmatebibyte @gbargoud Talk to M. Kasprzak / https://bsky.app/profile/distraction.engineer

Also, you are on wafrn, which is sort of this already

[emmatebibyte@app.wafrn.net]

im working on something of my own