People minimizing Orbán’s defeat in #Hungary through voting, and claiming that the same can’t be done to Donald Trump: Remember that Orbán was in power for SIXTEEN YEARS, that is, 2.5× LONGER than Trump.
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@drahardja I think most people's problem isn't that they think Trump won't leave office via an election, it's that the DNC doesn't have a democratic primary process and they are just going to run Gavin Newsom, who will win probably, and while better than Trump, we're looking at a marginally better rightwing president whether he or JD wins 2028, making it seem like voting doesn't matter -- the choice is oligarch-aligned rightwinger vs oligarch-aligned rightwinger at the end of the day as always.
Do you think TISZA has a democratic primary process??
TISZA gave party members the choice between three predetermined candidates in each district. (Just check their wikipedia site). The Democratic party in the USA is more democratic and open than that.Also Newsom is to the left of Magyar (and I hate Newsom, he's awful).
And several leftist parties decided to not run at all in order to unify opposition votes in Hungary.
But some leftist US Americans would rather endlessly complain about Democrats' primary process without realizing how lucky you are because you actually do get to choose your candidates in primaries. That's not the standard everywhere!
Hungarian leftists were pragmatic instead of choosing perfection, that's how they got rid of Orbán.
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@Emerson61 I will vote for Newsom if that’s the alternative I’m given.
Here’s my perspective: https://sfba.social/@drahardja/116377823558685082
@drahardja @Emerson61 And Newsom is a fine example of why the primaries are so very important because we really do not want that used car salesman.
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Do you think TISZA has a democratic primary process??
TISZA gave party members the choice between three predetermined candidates in each district. (Just check their wikipedia site). The Democratic party in the USA is more democratic and open than that.Also Newsom is to the left of Magyar (and I hate Newsom, he's awful).
And several leftist parties decided to not run at all in order to unify opposition votes in Hungary.
But some leftist US Americans would rather endlessly complain about Democrats' primary process without realizing how lucky you are because you actually do get to choose your candidates in primaries. That's not the standard everywhere!
Hungarian leftists were pragmatic instead of choosing perfection, that's how they got rid of Orbán.
@Mab_813 @Emerson61 @drahardja The disdain you have comes from not being present to watch how it happens in practice.
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People minimizing Orbán’s defeat in #Hungary through voting, and claiming that the same can’t be done to Donald Trump: Remember that Orbán was in power for SIXTEEN YEARS, that is, 2.5× LONGER than Trump. He had more than twice the time Trump has had to intimidate, corrupt, and destroy Hungary’s systems of voting. And yet, voting unseated him.
PLEASE do not preemptively give up on voting. Voting still works in the US, and it is quite likely that our voting infrastructure will far outlive Trump and his destructive party.
Authoritarians rely on a perceived popular mandate to continue their abuse. Voting can decisively deny them that mandate. Do not give up prematurely.
VOTE. VOTE. VOTE.
@drahardja Voting would work in the US with an audit trail, requirement to count mail-in ballots, paper ballots instead of electronic, and giving everyone back their right to vote. Everyone, which is to say, including citizens with a felony conviction.
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@drahardja Voting would work in the US with an audit trail, requirement to count mail-in ballots, paper ballots instead of electronic, and giving everyone back their right to vote. Everyone, which is to say, including citizens with a felony conviction.
@drahardja All of these are achievable in a single cycle with the proper application of guillotine.
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People minimizing Orbán’s defeat in #Hungary through voting, and claiming that the same can’t be done to Donald Trump: Remember that Orbán was in power for SIXTEEN YEARS, that is, 2.5× LONGER than Trump. He had more than twice the time Trump has had to intimidate, corrupt, and destroy Hungary’s systems of voting. And yet, voting unseated him.
PLEASE do not preemptively give up on voting. Voting still works in the US, and it is quite likely that our voting infrastructure will far outlive Trump and his destructive party.
Authoritarians rely on a perceived popular mandate to continue their abuse. Voting can decisively deny them that mandate. Do not give up prematurely.
VOTE. VOTE. VOTE.
@drahardja It's a great example that voting matters.
If fewer people had showed up, I'm sure Orban would have been more reluctant to give up, if at all. -
@Mab_813 @Emerson61 @drahardja The disdain you have comes from not being present to watch how it happens in practice.
I don't think I understand your post. I have disdain for what?
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People minimizing Orbán’s defeat in #Hungary through voting, and claiming that the same can’t be done to Donald Trump: Remember that Orbán was in power for SIXTEEN YEARS, that is, 2.5× LONGER than Trump. He had more than twice the time Trump has had to intimidate, corrupt, and destroy Hungary’s systems of voting. And yet, voting unseated him.
PLEASE do not preemptively give up on voting. Voting still works in the US, and it is quite likely that our voting infrastructure will far outlive Trump and his destructive party.
Authoritarians rely on a perceived popular mandate to continue their abuse. Voting can decisively deny them that mandate. Do not give up prematurely.
VOTE. VOTE. VOTE.
@drahardja Orbàn put a heck of a lot of structural obstacles in the way to try and stay in power. Those kinds of structures are very difficult to establish in the US: the voting system is local, not centralised. I recommend for disenchanted Americans to vote like their lives depend on it to prevent further attempts by Trump and his cronies. Don't give up when you have power. Vote in all elections.
(corrected typo)
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@drahardja Yes.
And then, once the Democrats are in power, do NOT let them sleep until they prosecute everyone anywhere near the Republican party who aided in Trump's lawbreaking and ban the party itself.
Otherwise, they will just run again in the next election. It's not over until you show them they can't do this again.
@OrionKidder @drahardja Yes, every elected person is just a starting point for the activism.
The activism is easier with a better (or less bad) candidate, but it is still the activism that gets you there.
Running a marathon is much easier if you only need to run half of it, without lead weights, and if you only have to avoid a few death squads along the way instead of one every 100 metres. Heck, even half of the death squads would be nice.
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People minimizing Orbán’s defeat in #Hungary through voting, and claiming that the same can’t be done to Donald Trump: Remember that Orbán was in power for SIXTEEN YEARS, that is, 2.5× LONGER than Trump. He had more than twice the time Trump has had to intimidate, corrupt, and destroy Hungary’s systems of voting. And yet, voting unseated him.
PLEASE do not preemptively give up on voting. Voting still works in the US, and it is quite likely that our voting infrastructure will far outlive Trump and his destructive party.
Authoritarians rely on a perceived popular mandate to continue their abuse. Voting can decisively deny them that mandate. Do not give up prematurely.
VOTE. VOTE. VOTE.
@drahardja Now we need to [Or]ban Putin, Trump, Netanyahu, and Edrogan.
Seek out and destroy fascism, and insist government be secular. -
People minimizing Orbán’s defeat in #Hungary through voting, and claiming that the same can’t be done to Donald Trump: Remember that Orbán was in power for SIXTEEN YEARS, that is, 2.5× LONGER than Trump. He had more than twice the time Trump has had to intimidate, corrupt, and destroy Hungary’s systems of voting. And yet, voting unseated him.
PLEASE do not preemptively give up on voting. Voting still works in the US, and it is quite likely that our voting infrastructure will far outlive Trump and his destructive party.
Authoritarians rely on a perceived popular mandate to continue their abuse. Voting can decisively deny them that mandate. Do not give up prematurely.
VOTE. VOTE. VOTE.
@drahardja
Thank you for this. -
Most seats in the Hungarian parliament are decided by first-past-the-post. So I don't think this is an apples to cannonballs comparison.
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I don't think I understand your post. I have disdain for what?
@Mab_813 For people complaining about the primary process.
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@Mab_813 For people complaining about the primary process.
I'm an Austrian leftist and I get zero say regarding party candidates. That's my point of view.
Also it's clear that candidates can win primaries even if the party establishment is against them. Fetterman and Mamdani (as different as they are) are both examples of that.
I was responding to a post about TISZA, pointing out that TISZA gives only party members a say and gives them a predetermined list of three candidates. So that's less influence than US Democratic primary voters have. -
I'm an Austrian leftist and I get zero say regarding party candidates. That's my point of view.
Also it's clear that candidates can win primaries even if the party establishment is against them. Fetterman and Mamdani (as different as they are) are both examples of that.
I was responding to a post about TISZA, pointing out that TISZA gives only party members a say and gives them a predetermined list of three candidates. So that's less influence than US Democratic primary voters have.@Mab_813 That's how we got Mrs Clinton, right?
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@Mab_813 That's how we got Mrs Clinton, right?
So what?
In the USA, ordinary voters have more say regarding the choice of candidates than Hungarians have. That was my whole point.
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@drahardja Yes.
And then, once the Democrats are in power, do NOT let them sleep until they prosecute everyone anywhere near the Republican party who aided in Trump's lawbreaking and ban the party itself.
Otherwise, they will just run again in the next election. It's not over until you show them they can't do this again.
@OrionKidder @drahardja Exactly. Follow-through is essential. Even better: make sure the Democrats are new ones, and/or DSA. With few exceptions the old ones have failed so badly they shouldn't be let anywhere near the levers of power; their hunger for the corporate teat, and ingrained tendency to appeasement, runs far too deep.
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@drahardja Yes.
And then, once the Democrats are in power, do NOT let them sleep until they prosecute everyone anywhere near the Republican party who aided in Trump's lawbreaking and ban the party itself.
Otherwise, they will just run again in the next election. It's not over until you show them they can't do this again.
@OrionKidder @drahardja Have you noticed that Trump promised to prosecute a lot of Democrats going to back to Hillary "You'd be in jail" Clinton in 2016, and did not do it?
The Democrats might go after Trump and his family - they are outsiders and need to be punished for trespassing in the political club - but other club member Republicans are off limits just like club member Democrats were.
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People minimizing Orbán’s defeat in #Hungary through voting, and claiming that the same can’t be done to Donald Trump: Remember that Orbán was in power for SIXTEEN YEARS, that is, 2.5× LONGER than Trump. He had more than twice the time Trump has had to intimidate, corrupt, and destroy Hungary’s systems of voting. And yet, voting unseated him.
PLEASE do not preemptively give up on voting. Voting still works in the US, and it is quite likely that our voting infrastructure will far outlive Trump and his destructive party.
Authoritarians rely on a perceived popular mandate to continue their abuse. Voting can decisively deny them that mandate. Do not give up prematurely.
VOTE. VOTE. VOTE.
Peter Magyar is a genocidal Zionist. This is not a great accomplishment. Replacing a right-winger with a right-winger will only lead us farther down the road to fascism. Which is exactly what happened when we replaced Trump with a rightwing racist Dixiecrat who was in the Ku Klux Klan and who mass murdered poor people in America with his horrific economic policy and then funded and armed the worst genocide any of us have ever seen.
Voting has progressively made things absolutely worse with each new asshole we elect.
Burn it all down
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@drahardja Voting would work in the US with an audit trail, requirement to count mail-in ballots, paper ballots instead of electronic, and giving everyone back their right to vote. Everyone, which is to say, including citizens with a felony conviction.
And ranked choice and ONLY publicly funded elections with limits on how much you can donate, ending SuperPacs and billionaires buying our politicians
