I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack.
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
I guess this is the Nazi bar analogy, and I sort of get that. But I have a few questions.
First, and I know this is a bit reductio ad absurdum, but bear with me, should we boycott comcast because they let Andrew Tate use their wires? If not, where is the dividing line?
Second, I guess the argument here is that they are platforming an asshole, and using their non-asshole bloggers as leverage. Why doesn't this work in both directions? Can't I plunder Andrew Tate's followers?
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I guess this is the Nazi bar analogy, and I sort of get that. But I have a few questions.
First, and I know this is a bit reductio ad absurdum, but bear with me, should we boycott comcast because they let Andrew Tate use their wires? If not, where is the dividing line?
Second, I guess the argument here is that they are platforming an asshole, and using their non-asshole bloggers as leverage. Why doesn't this work in both directions? Can't I plunder Andrew Tate's followers?
A related question is, given that substack actually appears to work better than its competitors, how much does it cost us to not use it, both in terms of ease of use and in terms of reach.
And how much does it cost us to use it, in terms of the damage that their asshole users cause?
Suppose the answer is that the cost of not using it outweighs the cost of using it. Should we still not use it? If so, why?
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A related question is, given that substack actually appears to work better than its competitors, how much does it cost us to not use it, both in terms of ease of use and in terms of reach.
And how much does it cost us to use it, in terms of the damage that their asshole users cause?
Suppose the answer is that the cost of not using it outweighs the cost of using it. Should we still not use it? If so, why?
I ask these questions because I know how easy it is to use substack, and also how easy it is to use alternatives like Ghost. I'm actually trying to decide what to do about this—this isn't an idle set of questions.
Right now, it feels a lot like not using substack is similar to not flying to conferences. Airlines are actively harmful in the world, but we don't really have a viable alternative. Should we silence ourselves by not flying?
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I ask these questions because I know how easy it is to use substack, and also how easy it is to use alternatives like Ghost. I'm actually trying to decide what to do about this—this isn't an idle set of questions.
Right now, it feels a lot like not using substack is similar to not flying to conferences. Airlines are actively harmful in the world, but we don't really have a viable alternative. Should we silence ourselves by not flying?
A lot of people I admire, e.g. Amanda Litman, Anand Ghiridaradas and Waleed Shahid, use substack. Why are you right and they are wrong?
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I guess this is the Nazi bar analogy, and I sort of get that. But I have a few questions.
First, and I know this is a bit reductio ad absurdum, but bear with me, should we boycott comcast because they let Andrew Tate use their wires? If not, where is the dividing line?
Second, I guess the argument here is that they are platforming an asshole, and using their non-asshole bloggers as leverage. Why doesn't this work in both directions? Can't I plunder Andrew Tate's followers?
@abhayakara they are not just platforming. They are promoting.
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
@dangillmor
I have regretfully cancelled subscription to @BylineTimes because I can't bear to look at Substack. -
I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
@dangillmor Substack is an algorithm cesspit of AI and conspiracy theorists. I thought was was becoming indy when I joined, now I'm back death-scrolling.
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
@dangillmor just wondered if you have any suggestions for more ethical sites to share writing ... substack had been recommended to me as I wanted to start putting some of my work 'out there', but ethics are important to me
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R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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@dangillmor just wondered if you have any suggestions for more ethical sites to share writing ... substack had been recommended to me as I wanted to start putting some of my work 'out there', but ethics are important to me
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The Best Substack Alternatives
These three alternatives to the newsletter platform offer just as many—if not more—features, and can be easier on your wallet.
WIRED (www.wired.com)
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
@dangillmor I wish people would take on Stripe.
Substack has great Palestinian content as well.
In my mind, it's about who takes the money. Stripe.
But that's perhaps too inconvenient for those that use Stripe.
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A lot of people I admire, e.g. Amanda Litman, Anand Ghiridaradas and Waleed Shahid, use substack. Why are you right and they are wrong?
@abhayakara I always just do the best I can, it's impossible to boycott or move on from everything with shitty people on them or running them.
I don't use any Meta products for example to the point I have a pihole to try and fully block their tracking. I still use Google though they've proven time and time again to do shitty things. I have moved from Chrome and experiment with other search engines, but still heavily use their office suite and Gmail.
We quit Target but still use Walmart who is just as bad but the devil you know I guess.
All that to say, for me when a company hits a breaking point where I no longer feel comfortable, that's when I leave.
It's an imperfect world and we're humans, don't beat yourself up to much about this stuff.
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@abhayakara I always just do the best I can, it's impossible to boycott or move on from everything with shitty people on them or running them.
I don't use any Meta products for example to the point I have a pihole to try and fully block their tracking. I still use Google though they've proven time and time again to do shitty things. I have moved from Chrome and experiment with other search engines, but still heavily use their office suite and Gmail.
We quit Target but still use Walmart who is just as bad but the devil you know I guess.
All that to say, for me when a company hits a breaking point where I no longer feel comfortable, that's when I leave.
It's an imperfect world and we're humans, don't beat yourself up to much about this stuff.
The only quibble I would make with this is that if you are doing what makes sense, you shouldn't beat yourself up about it.
I've been a U.S. citizen my whole life, and my country has engaged in many wars I find reprehensible.
Should I have renounced my citizenship? No. It's my country, no more or less than theirs.
Is there no alternative to Walmart? The alternative they closed for me was mine. I want it back, but meanwhile I have to live. It's not wrong to choose to live.
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The only quibble I would make with this is that if you are doing what makes sense, you shouldn't beat yourself up about it.
I've been a U.S. citizen my whole life, and my country has engaged in many wars I find reprehensible.
Should I have renounced my citizenship? No. It's my country, no more or less than theirs.
Is there no alternative to Walmart? The alternative they closed for me was mine. I want it back, but meanwhile I have to live. It's not wrong to choose to live.
How this relates to substack is of course still a matter for debate: there _are_ alternatives. But each of the alternatives I've found is (a lot) more work and has less reach, as far as I can tell.
Of the lot of them, Patreon is probably the best, but they seem to be wandering down the enshittification highway, so we'll see.
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@abhayakara they are not just platforming. They are promoting.
I keep hearing people say this. Possibly it's true. But why do I keep hearing these assertions without backup? Like, you could have said "look here at what they are doing." But you didn't. Why didn't you?
If they are indeed promoting nazis, how are they doing that? Do you mean because they have a best seller chart and Tate is on top? Or something else? If it's something else, please point me to a clear analysis of this—I haven't been able to find one.
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How this relates to substack is of course still a matter for debate: there _are_ alternatives. But each of the alternatives I've found is (a lot) more work and has less reach, as far as I can tell.
Of the lot of them, Patreon is probably the best, but they seem to be wandering down the enshittification highway, so we'll see.
it's not that complicated
andrew tate is a piece of shit
that substack platforms him is repugnant enough for many people that they just won't use substack
some won't care. well, fuck them
some worry that the air they breathe contains some molecules that were once also breathed by stalin, so they'll stop breathing. yeah these people are a bit much: you follow coherent connections, and apply pressure where it is worth it
it's a balance in life, always
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
@dangillmor i did have to block substack from loading or being suggested in searches. I find it more functional to focus my energy on things I want to see thrive. Depriving capitalists of profits and amplification is a major plus side of this approach.
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I guess this is the Nazi bar analogy, and I sort of get that. But I have a few questions.
First, and I know this is a bit reductio ad absurdum, but bear with me, should we boycott comcast because they let Andrew Tate use their wires? If not, where is the dividing line?
Second, I guess the argument here is that they are platforming an asshole, and using their non-asshole bloggers as leverage. Why doesn't this work in both directions? Can't I plunder Andrew Tate's followers?
@abhayakara @dangillmor Elevating rapists so you can access his true believers?! 🤮
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
@dangillmor
No, they simply don't know.
And probably 99% have never heard of Andrew Tate. I would not have heard of it if I had not seen it mentioned several times on posts like this, and eventually searched. -
@dangillmor I wish people would take on Stripe.
Substack has great Palestinian content as well.
In my mind, it's about who takes the money. Stripe.
But that's perhaps too inconvenient for those that use Stripe.
@knowprose @dangillmor What's the alternative to Stripe? PayPal, Bitcoin et. al., surely not.
