Coal produces about 33% of global electricitySolar and wind produce 8–9% eachElectricity meets about 20% of total energy demandhttps://www.visualcapitalist.com/coal-still-powers-more-electricity/
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For the past hour I"ve tried to figure out why this seems to be a disagreement where there should be none.
The solution is that we need a combination of both, less consumption, and fully sustainable production of the rest. You can cut energy use in half – if that remaining half is not produced via renewables, then it's still always "more". Even the last fossil fuel plant burns things that are then gone.
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Then they need more fuel. Fuel that will displace people (coal), or impact their immediate (fracking) or wider (extreme weather) environment. Producing this energy with renewables removes this "more".
By now solar panels and batteries can be 100% recycled. Sodium batteries use little exotic materials, etc.
So my point is not one of "more" but of "instead". And that implies installing solar and wind harvesting, and shutting down burning facilities.
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@knud @gerrymcgovern @dnkboston
Does that include things like producing the steel, to build the ships for transport, well to till balances for all the production?
@tschenkel @gerrymcgovern @dnkboston
Yes. There is a formal and accepted way of accounting and numbers exist per country that include or exclude these imports.
I also thought that we exported a lot of our emission to elsewhere, but it is not a large fraction. Heating, transport, construction, and food still dominate the balance sheet.
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@tschenkel @gerrymcgovern @dnkboston
Yes. There is a formal and accepted way of accounting and numbers exist per country that include or exclude these imports.
I also thought that we exported a lot of our emission to elsewhere, but it is not a large fraction. Heating, transport, construction, and food still dominate the balance sheet.
@knud @gerrymcgovern @dnkboston
The formal and accepted way is not including all the emissions. At least not in my field of work, so I have no reason to believe it to be different in another.
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@dnkboston @knud @gerrymcgovern Yes it’s a systemic issue. But we don’t need less salads, we need actual salads – salads with thick leaves, bought through a food bank, that will fill you for several meals.
This has to be combined with higher wages, merely because they’re extracted from workers by their employers (CEOs, top executives, and shareholders). Drawing from a single read – although an awarded one, CNRS gold medal – I’m going out on a limb here and claim that growth is pauperism by another name.
Anyway, I’d consider “less forced consumerism” as “better consumption”, wouldn’t you?
@oceane Yes, I think we're on the same page. And that's a very good way of putting it.
Jesus, even just being able to repair our things would be such an improvement.
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@dnkboston @knud @gerrymcgovern I’m not being condescending or sarcastic, this isn’t a rhetoric question – you’re talking here about dematerialization and forced consumerism with public services tied to the Google/Apple ecosystems, aren’t you?
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Then they need more fuel. Fuel that will displace people (coal), or impact their immediate (fracking) or wider (extreme weather) environment. Producing this energy with renewables removes this "more".
By now solar panels and batteries can be 100% recycled. Sodium batteries use little exotic materials, etc.
So my point is not one of "more" but of "instead". And that implies installing solar and wind harvesting, and shutting down burning facilities.
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@knud @dnkboston @gerrymcgovern Deb, how do you propose to get the overwhelming majority of white supremacist Americans to use less energy when they're busy pushing the USA into racist dictatorship that is massively escalating fossil fuel use?
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Then they need more fuel. Fuel that will displace people (coal), or impact their immediate (fracking) or wider (extreme weather) environment. Producing this energy with renewables removes this "more".
By now solar panels and batteries can be 100% recycled. Sodium batteries use little exotic materials, etc.
So my point is not one of "more" but of "instead". And that implies installing solar and wind harvesting, and shutting down burning facilities.
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@knud I think you are well-intentioned, but we're looking at this differently. I do not think that the renewable/green technology production cycle is sustainable. The amount of damage done to ecosystems to get the materials, to say nothing of the costs to human health, needs to be taken into account with these assessments. At the very least, you can move people around only after you've damaged the places they live only so many times before you run out of places to move them. @gerrymcgovern
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@knud @dnkboston @gerrymcgovern Deb, how do you propose to get the overwhelming majority of white supremacist Americans to use less energy when they're busy pushing the USA into racist dictatorship that is massively escalating fossil fuel use?
@jonesmurphy Excellent question, and I have no idea yet. But I have to persist with this until I do see a direction.
This is not an endorsement of Trump in any way, but his idiotic conflicts are making the point about the vulnerabilities of a fossil fuel environment. There is only so much political leverage and manipulation that can lower prices.
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@knud @dnkboston @gerrymcgovern Deb, how do you propose to get the overwhelming majority of white supremacist Americans to use less energy when they're busy pushing the USA into racist dictatorship that is massively escalating fossil fuel use?
@jonesmurphy At this point, reality should have done the trick. Katrina, Sandy, the horrible Houston flooding, followed by Texas freezing. Hurricane/Cancer Alley. Mississippi dead zones. Persistent droughts in the Northeast. It's practically a sign of mental illness that people would still vote for their own doom after all of the disasters.
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@jonesmurphy At this point, reality should have done the trick. Katrina, Sandy, the horrible Houston flooding, followed by Texas freezing. Hurricane/Cancer Alley. Mississippi dead zones. Persistent droughts in the Northeast. It's practically a sign of mental illness that people would still vote for their own doom after all of the disasters.
@dnkboston @knud @gerrymcgovern yes. Racism is brain damage literally to a psychiatrically concerning degree. They are suicidal. This closely resembles the mindset of the nearly 40 million women who voted once again for the Pu$$y Grabber to police their own vaginas. Or the Latinos who voted for ICE. And the increased % of black voters(led by Clarence Thomas, Kanye West, Snoop Dogg etc) who voted for resegregation. This is the crowd we are hoping will reduce energy usage. That's not happening.
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@dnkboston @knud @gerrymcgovern yes. Racism is brain damage literally to a psychiatrically concerning degree. They are suicidal. This closely resembles the mindset of the nearly 40 million women who voted once again for the Pu$$y Grabber to police their own vaginas. Or the Latinos who voted for ICE. And the increased % of black voters(led by Clarence Thomas, Kanye West, Snoop Dogg etc) who voted for resegregation. This is the crowd we are hoping will reduce energy usage. That's not happening.
@jonesmurphy Yeah, you're right. In general, I don't bother flipping myself into a pretzel to get them to do the right thing.
Best bet is to re-enfranchise those who have been disenfranchised. Second best is to get the people who stayed home.
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@jonesmurphy Excellent question, and I have no idea yet. But I have to persist with this until I do see a direction.
This is not an endorsement of Trump in any way, but his idiotic conflicts are making the point about the vulnerabilities of a fossil fuel environment. There is only so much political leverage and manipulation that can lower prices.
@dnkboston @knud @gerrymcgovern Trump supporters overwhelmingly do not care. His approval is insanely high, averaging right around 40%, well above his low of 34% after Jan 6th. Worse, Trump supporters led by Supreme Court Republicans have rolled back MLK's voting rights legacy to the point where 40% or even less is more than enough for them to retain power indefinitely.
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@jonesmurphy Yeah, you're right. In general, I don't bother flipping myself into a pretzel to get them to do the right thing.
Best bet is to re-enfranchise those who have been disenfranchised. Second best is to get the people who stayed home.
@dnkboston @knud @gerrymcgovern rew-enfranchisement will not happen peacefully. Enfranchisement did not happen peacefully. It took 100 yrs from the Civil War to Civil Rights and a LOT of bloodshed.
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@dnkboston @knud @gerrymcgovern Trump supporters overwhelmingly do not care. His approval is insanely high, averaging right around 40%, well above his low of 34% after Jan 6th. Worse, Trump supporters led by Supreme Court Republicans have rolled back MLK's voting rights legacy to the point where 40% or even less is more than enough for them to retain power indefinitely.
@jonesmurphy If they keep taking away our legal recourses...let's just say I'm not going to ask people not to do anything stupid anymore.
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@dnkboston @knud @gerrymcgovern rew-enfranchisement will not happen peacefully. Enfranchisement did not happen peacefully. It took 100 yrs from the Civil War to Civil Rights and a LOT of bloodshed.
@jonesmurphy I don't want to shed anyone's blood--or cause anyone's blood to be shed--but if that's where they insist on taking this, here we go.
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@jonesmurphy I don't want to shed anyone's blood--or cause anyone's blood to be shed--but if that's where they insist on taking this, here we go.
@dnkboston I want to shed the blood of Nazis, just as much as they want to shed mine because they are obsessed with being inbred and believe that this is superior to diverse ancestry. This ain't 1939 or 1776. They can bring it and find out.
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@dnkboston I want to shed the blood of Nazis, just as much as they want to shed mine because they are obsessed with being inbred and believe that this is superior to diverse ancestry. This ain't 1939 or 1776. They can bring it and find out.
@jonesmurphy I want them to be dragged into court, convicted, and live out a long sentence in prison. I'm vengeful.
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@jonesmurphy If they keep taking away our legal recourses...let's just say I'm not going to ask people not to do anything stupid anymore.
@dnkboston "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" JFK, exactly 3 yrs to the day before I was born.
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@jonesmurphy I want them to be dragged into court, convicted, and live out a long sentence in prison. I'm vengeful.
@dnkboston I hope that does happen. It's a huge improvement on what I expect, namely Civil War II
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@dnkboston "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" JFK, exactly 3 yrs to the day before I was born.
@jonesmurphy I rarely have anything good to say about JFK, but in this case, yep.
