Yup.
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@mekkaokereke Reminds me of a study I read about many years ago where participants had to play a typical psychology-study game where had to make a choice to be more fair or more selfish. Control group got placebo. The three experimental groups got:
* placebo, but told it was testosterone
* testosterone, but not told what it was
* testosterone, and told it was testosterone@mw This sounds very similar to a study on alcohol I think I read about many years ago in "Watching the English". If I remember rightly, one group was given alcohol for a party, one was given non-alcoholic drinks, and a third was given non-alcoholic drinks but told they were alcoholic. The last group also behaved "drunk". Leary "drunkenness" wasn't really a property of the alcohol (which is a depressant) but sociological.
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Yeah as a parent of 2 teens (1 cis lad, 1 transmasc son) there _is_ a period of time where it kicks in hard and the "learning to regulate your emotions" @mekkaokereke mentions has to be speedran, and during that period the chemicals sloshing in the system actually _are_ some justification for lashing out, but all things being equal that period of time is like, a few DAYS, maybe a handful of weeks tops.
Define "lashing out." Putting your hands on someone? No. Keep your hands to yourself.
Getting emotional? Yes, that's acceptable for more than a few days. A lifetime even!
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Yup.
Like I've said: roid rage isn't a real thing. It's not. Anyone that tries to tell you that it is a real thing, is probably trying to justify violence by petulant man-babies.
If you're thinking "But steroids can make you irritable!
" I don't care. All women get irritable. All women know how guns and knives work. But they don't shoot and stab and beat people every time they get irritable. Part of being an adult, is learning how to regulate your emotions. Keep your hands to yourself.Steroids don't make big men angry. Steroids make angry men big. What would've been a 150 lb twerp, is now a 200 lb twerp. Steroids give them the opportunity to try to live out their violence. When I worked as a bouncer in college, I often had to hulk-smash roided out dudes that don't understand that steroids won't help them against me, and that fighting is a skill, and that they didn't have that skill.
I've never taken steroids. I'm an elite level natural powerlifter. Many powerlifters and bodybuilders aren't natural, which means that they do take steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. They don't rage on people.
I don't judge people who take steroids for sports. I certainly don't judge people who do gender affirming care. I am pro-gender affirming care. What I'm against, is violent people that try to blame steroids as their excuse for hurting people that they perceive as smaller than them.
No.
It's not the steroids. It's you.
@mekkaokereke actually, low testosterone makes old guys crabby and antisocial. They're much better with a little additional testosterone
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@mekkaokereke actually, low testosterone makes old guys crabby and antisocial. They're much better with a little additional testosterone
@deepmud @mekkaokereke Yup. I'm getting that tested as part of a bunch of tests to find out why I'm crabby and antisocial 🤪
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Yup.
Like I've said: roid rage isn't a real thing. It's not. Anyone that tries to tell you that it is a real thing, is probably trying to justify violence by petulant man-babies.
If you're thinking "But steroids can make you irritable!
" I don't care. All women get irritable. All women know how guns and knives work. But they don't shoot and stab and beat people every time they get irritable. Part of being an adult, is learning how to regulate your emotions. Keep your hands to yourself.Steroids don't make big men angry. Steroids make angry men big. What would've been a 150 lb twerp, is now a 200 lb twerp. Steroids give them the opportunity to try to live out their violence. When I worked as a bouncer in college, I often had to hulk-smash roided out dudes that don't understand that steroids won't help them against me, and that fighting is a skill, and that they didn't have that skill.
I've never taken steroids. I'm an elite level natural powerlifter. Many powerlifters and bodybuilders aren't natural, which means that they do take steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. They don't rage on people.
I don't judge people who take steroids for sports. I certainly don't judge people who do gender affirming care. I am pro-gender affirming care. What I'm against, is violent people that try to blame steroids as their excuse for hurting people that they perceive as smaller than them.
No.
It's not the steroids. It's you.
One thing to keep in mind: as an adult, it is your responsibility to manage your emotions and learn how to do so in a socially acceptable way. In 95% of situations, that means not being violent.
If you are being violent, It doesn't matter why you are being violent. You are breaking the social contact.
Don't make excuses, do the work and sort your shit out.
There are multiple types of therapy and various medications that might help. You have to take care of it. You can't make it everybody else's problem.
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Define "lashing out." Putting your hands on someone? No. Keep your hands to yourself.
Getting emotional? Yes, that's acceptable for more than a few days. A lifetime even!
@mekkaokereke @oscarjiminy
In our case it was seeing red & punching the sib.
Accepted by us parents as a mitigating factor for a few days when the hormones hit like a train. Then... Yeah, no longer even a mitigating factor, it's your problem to control your reactions, kid. -
@mekkaokereke @oscarjiminy
In our case it was seeing red & punching the sib.
Accepted by us parents as a mitigating factor for a few days when the hormones hit like a train. Then... Yeah, no longer even a mitigating factor, it's your problem to control your reactions, kid.
️ Parenting! -
100% agree! But in both cases, the issue is not the steroids. The issue is societal acceptance of violence by men that can't regulate their emotions.
I was serious when I said "Petulant man-baby."
Steroids did not give this man anger issues. Steroids made him feel invincible, so he got in road rage fights with women on the freeway.
He tried it once with a man who works as a valet in a car park on LA, and got beat up (fighting is a skill). Then he went to Hawaii, and attacked more women. Then he went to jail, and met some Hawaiians my size without steroids. Violent people find each other.
️This is not "roid rage." This is anger and misogyny, enabled by steroids.
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@mekkaokereke The ones who got t. and not told what it was played somewhat more fairly than the control group, which is interesting. But much more interesting was that the ones who were _told_ they were given testosterone played much more selfishly, whether it was placebo or not. The conclusion was that people's _idea_ of what hormones do completely overrides their actual effects on behavior.
@mw @mekkaokereke because of lifelong hormonal issues, my E levels were high (>150pg/mL) and T levels low (<320ng/mL), all endogenous.
about six or seven years ago i started taking a non-HRT medication that cut the E to <20pg/ml and roughly doubled T (>650ng/mL).
i was more sociable, it was much easier to start conversations, and every interaction-related thing became almost weightless. T has far more to do with cooperation than aggression.
biological essentialism is a cursed idea.
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@oscarjiminy @mekkaokereke
Yeah there's a lot of context needed before getting judgemental about any response, for sure. -
@deepmud @mekkaokereke Yup. I'm getting that tested as part of a bunch of tests to find out why I'm crabby and antisocial 🤪
@davep good luck! It's a tad hard to administer....cream is messy and you can expose others, and injections are unpleasant.
But the people I know who are using supplemental testosterone are very happy how much better they feel
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@mw @mekkaokereke because of lifelong hormonal issues, my E levels were high (>150pg/mL) and T levels low (<320ng/mL), all endogenous.
about six or seven years ago i started taking a non-HRT medication that cut the E to <20pg/ml and roughly doubled T (>650ng/mL).
i was more sociable, it was much easier to start conversations, and every interaction-related thing became almost weightless. T has far more to do with cooperation than aggression.
biological essentialism is a cursed idea.
@mw @mekkaokereke i have a friend who started HRT in his 50s because of a different medical condition. he had the same experience.
more energy, easier interactions with others, and far more patience under trying circumstances.
the people flattening and corrupting the myriad ways hormones interact with behavior are demonstrably wrong and absolutely causing harm to everyone.
this is the twinkie defense all over again.
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One thing to keep in mind: as an adult, it is your responsibility to manage your emotions and learn how to do so in a socially acceptable way. In 95% of situations, that means not being violent.
If you are being violent, It doesn't matter why you are being violent. You are breaking the social contact.
Don't make excuses, do the work and sort your shit out.
There are multiple types of therapy and various medications that might help. You have to take care of it. You can't make it everybody else's problem.
And if you find that certain sorts of things push you close to that line, avoid those situations or learn to just shut up and walk away, no matter how bad it makes you look or feel.
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Yup.
Like I've said: roid rage isn't a real thing. It's not. Anyone that tries to tell you that it is a real thing, is probably trying to justify violence by petulant man-babies.
If you're thinking "But steroids can make you irritable!
" I don't care. All women get irritable. All women know how guns and knives work. But they don't shoot and stab and beat people every time they get irritable. Part of being an adult, is learning how to regulate your emotions. Keep your hands to yourself.Steroids don't make big men angry. Steroids make angry men big. What would've been a 150 lb twerp, is now a 200 lb twerp. Steroids give them the opportunity to try to live out their violence. When I worked as a bouncer in college, I often had to hulk-smash roided out dudes that don't understand that steroids won't help them against me, and that fighting is a skill, and that they didn't have that skill.
I've never taken steroids. I'm an elite level natural powerlifter. Many powerlifters and bodybuilders aren't natural, which means that they do take steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. They don't rage on people.
I don't judge people who take steroids for sports. I certainly don't judge people who do gender affirming care. I am pro-gender affirming care. What I'm against, is violent people that try to blame steroids as their excuse for hurting people that they perceive as smaller than them.
No.
It's not the steroids. It's you.
@mekkaokereke *aste*roid rage, on the other hand...
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One thing to keep in mind: as an adult, it is your responsibility to manage your emotions and learn how to do so in a socially acceptable way. In 95% of situations, that means not being violent.
If you are being violent, It doesn't matter why you are being violent. You are breaking the social contact.
Don't make excuses, do the work and sort your shit out.
There are multiple types of therapy and various medications that might help. You have to take care of it. You can't make it everybody else's problem.
@jrdepriest @mekkaokereke
You've perfectly described resentment junkies that thrive on anger, threat of violence, and execution of violence. A sense of revenge is their cocaine...pure criminal temperment. -
I never pass up an opportunity to push bell hooks.
mekka okereke :verified: (@mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)
@Jeanniewarner@wandering.shop @jonquass@techhub.social @donlamb_1@mastodon.online And for folks thinking "Are you saying that misogyny didn't play any part in Trump's victory?"🤡 Or "Are you saying Black men can't be sexist?"🤡 Or "Are you saying that women politicians don't face sexism?"🤡 Of course not. Those aren't even reasonable questions. If you ask me to estimate the combined weight of an elephant and a mouse, I'm just going to estimate the weight of the elephant. If you then say, "Are you saying mice are massless particles like photons?"🤡 I will also say "Of course not." Sexism in Black men in a racist country, can express very differently. There are many paradoxes where white women support a pro-patriarchy position to a greater extent than Black men. That doesn't make Black men, or Black women, immune to sexism. No I'm not some kind of expert on sexism or feminism. I'm an expert on US and UK racism, and have a deep understanding of the ways that fake feminism is used to advance racism in those countries. All men should read "The Will to Change" by bell hooks. It's my go to book for men to understand feminism. No book is perfect, and I 100% am not open to discussing anyone's critiques of the book online. I'm not saying that there is nothing to critique. I'm saying that it's close to perfect as an intro feminism book for men whose initial belief is "feminism is about hating men!" Or "societal power is zero sum, so if women get more, that means men will get less!" or that think that patriarchy benefits men. Audiobook: https://play.google.com/store/audiobooks/details?id=AQAAAEBs9lW2KM Ebook: https://play.google.com/store/books/details/bell_hooks_The_Will_to_Change?id=G28LTQltyVAC
Hachyderm.io (hachyderm.io)
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@gme i've had a similar experience, actually. i discontinued arimidex after a few months because it caused unpleasant side effects. a few years later when i ran T & E panels, i was in a far better range (37pg/mL, 509ng/mL) despite not taking it for a long time or my body composition changing significantly.
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@mekkaokereke The ones who got t. and not told what it was played somewhat more fairly than the control group, which is interesting. But much more interesting was that the ones who were _told_ they were given testosterone played much more selfishly, whether it was placebo or not. The conclusion was that people's _idea_ of what hormones do completely overrides their actual effects on behavior.
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@mw @mekkaokereke "Researchers at the University of Zurich and Royal Holloway, University of London conducted a study of 120 women and found that testosterone promoted fairness in a bargaining game."
120 is interesting, not proof.
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@mw @mekkaokereke "Researchers at the University of Zurich and Royal Holloway, University of London conducted a study of 120 women and found that testosterone promoted fairness in a bargaining game."
120 is interesting, not proof.
@CStamp @mekkaokereke Yeah, statistically not huge, and psychology-study games don't always translate well to the real world. But there are lots of other related studies if you really want to dig into it. This is just the one I remember hearing about :-).
For me, the big thing isn't so much the hormone effect, but the effect of people's _ideas_ of the hormones, which in this case were opposite to the actual ones.
