The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs.
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@GerardThornley @johntimaeus @tante You know that every piece of software written is more or less undefined behavior right?
Like 99.999999% of software is using a stack where its both impossible to not have undefined behavior and it relies on it to function.
@GerardThornley @johntimaeus @tante Hell, it takes extreme effort to have deterministic floating point calculations. Like there are so many examples of insane things, you have to intentionally look away to think otherwise.
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@tante In my experience, it's non-engineers who tend to focus on the tech and may need to be gently guided back to the problem they're trying to solve, from which a lot of engineers will look first for a simpler, less technical, or more general solution.
@GerardThornley @tante simplicity über alles
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@Wyatt_H_Knott @Colman That's great of those drawings are available. Not so good when it's your first time doing a maritime contact and are located a long way (>1000km) from any ships or ship designers.
The frustrating thing was the customer not seeing what the problem was with the spec their contractors had developed.
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@GerardThornley @johntimaeus @tante Hell, it takes extreme effort to have deterministic floating point calculations. Like there are so many examples of insane things, you have to intentionally look away to think otherwise.
@alatiera @johntimaeus @tante
Look, I'm not interested in debating a moving target.
You don't seem to know if your point is that software engineering is deregulated and outsourced, or that it's possible to create non-deterministic systems and therefore impossible to create deterministic ones.
I don't care. You made an incorrect claim. I corrected it. If someone else wants to continue this, they're welcome, but please do me the courtesy of dropping me from the mentions. I have better things to do. -
@alatiera @johntimaeus @tante
Look, I'm not interested in debating a moving target.
You don't seem to know if your point is that software engineering is deregulated and outsourced, or that it's possible to create non-deterministic systems and therefore impossible to create deterministic ones.
I don't care. You made an incorrect claim. I corrected it. If someone else wants to continue this, they're welcome, but please do me the courtesy of dropping me from the mentions. I have better things to do.@GerardThornley @johntimaeus @tante Both are my points you obnoxious debatelord. I don't care if its theoretically possible to write formally verified software when its done exactly nowhere and there are no regulations requiring it.
You clearly don't have anything better to do, otherwise you'd have a life instead of trying to well actually a 100 character post.
Go touch grass, if nothing else so you stop being a nuisance to those are you in the public.
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@GerardThornley @tante To this day they are rebooting f35 subsystems mid-flight when they bug out.
Not all software is trash-tier quality but we are nowhere close to the reliability and determinism you'd expect for any engineering field. And its not getting any better with all the deregulation and outsourcing to contractors.
Canada needs S. Korea subs, with full tech xfer and Swedish planes with the same.
The USA ships late, over budget and expensive with vendor lock in.
Fuck that. We don't need the USA for hardware or software. Waste of money. -
@Wyatt_H_Knott @Colman That's great of those drawings are available. Not so good when it's your first time doing a maritime contact and are located a long way (>1000km) from any ships or ship designers.
The frustrating thing was the customer not seeing what the problem was with the spec their contractors had developed.
@ingram At that point you don't need the spec, you need the manual. The manual tells you what we did to meet the spec. Ideally. It certainly, in the Naval world, tells you what everything is and how to operate and maintain it.
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@CubeRootOfTrue @tante The job of an engineer is to say "no" and deliver.
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@Wyatt_H_Knott @Colman But that doesn't account for one department not liking being told they need to incorporate new "standard" shiny boxes when in the past they've had complete control of their platform and could select their own shiny boxes. Army are so much easier to deal with and will even let contractors drive their toys when stuff needs fitting.
I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore.
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