drama!
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@alexpsmith @benroyce My instance's rules say thay you need to put a CW on sexually explicit material. That might apply to an image of a fucking sandwich.
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@gobsmacked @benroyce I agree that authoritarianism and political violence should not be covered up. But I’m not convinced that there’s a dichotomy between denying or covering up fascist acts and broadcasting fascist acts to everyone. Does every person need to know the details of fascist acts? I would like to allow people to be able to opt out of reading or viewing material that they personally deem to be distressing, as much as possible and acknowledging that it might not be possible for an individual to avoid seeing every thing that is distressing to them.
Personally I think hashtags and filters work better for this purpose, as the receiver can opt out reasonably easily, but I think that the Fediverse has settled in content warnings as a default method.i agree with you on hashtag use
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@benroyce
You do get that the word abuse itself is a memory trigger for abused people who don't like to be triggered by some news - no matter how valid or important it is?
If you get that, you understand that CW isn't there to censor, but to be nice and to make life better for certain people. That's part of why people use the Fediverse and don't use Twitter.@gobsmacked UI features are no substitute for help and treatment for people dealing with trauma. We're talking about a show/hide button here.
Further: hiding news and information about abuse is enabling abusers. Is this not obvious?
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drama!
i need to rant about #ContentWarning creep
i posted once of a Ukrainian reporter whose corpse was abused by Russia. i got calls for #CW. no pictures, no text details, just a link to a story
i suspect some CW calls are a manipulation to hide fascist abuse
certainly some are sincere
but they aren't serving a valid goal. an extreme level of sensitivity is absurd and unactionable
gore? absolutely CW
but some calls serve #fascism by hiding abuse. abuse we rightfully need to broadcast
@benroyce I will use them occasionally but mostly I think the happy medium is hashtags. People can mute what they don't want to see without a poster having to meet the impossible demand of 100s of random users needs.
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@benroyce I think there is nuance here around where we go for news. Some people come to fedi just to play with their friends, they receive their news from other places and share links with friends and family via signal. Sharing something without a content warning because "everyone needs to see this" implies that everyone isn't already reading the news in other places, putting us a savior/beacon for distributing news that is readily available everywhere. We are aware of the horrors, very very very aware, we are building momentum of revolution. And sometimes we just need a breather from the horrors because the horrors invade every single point of our lives. I do post about #uspol because I want to be a part of the conversations and I want to find other people who align in the revolution. Fighting over how we disseminate information is not going to bring more people to greater awareness. We also need spaces of softness and whimsy to keep us grounded in the tender possibilities of what CAN be built when we aren't lost in the madness of it all.
Well said.
On related issue "everybody needs to see this":
"Everyone" is often defined as being US citizens and subjects. Tags are often more important than CW.
Before the US presidential elections I had to be extremely inventive with filters (and indeed ended up just blocking English-posts as a rule) as so much content was intentionally refused to be tagged with USpol (got [ridiculed/piled on] for asking it of the few accounts that always got hundreds of retoots).
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@benroyce If you look through mainstream news photo annuals from WWII to the 1970s, or Life magazine, it’s astonishing how much gore they printed. Our contemporary media has protected society from the real violence of everyday life as well as war. Instead, we have a cartoon or video game understanding of what real,violence entails.
>Magazines used to print gore
On the other hand, when you picked up Life, you were at home or a waiting room, expecting certain content, and engaged enough that jumping over a fold was expected.
It was not "birthday photo, puppies, corpse rotting on a street, cat photo, a flower arrangement".
Also the people post-WW2 were desensitized to gore due to the war. Meanwhile they thought the Voyager plate (without female genitalia) was pornographic.
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@alexpsmith @benroyce My instance's rules say thay you need to put a CW on sexually explicit material. That might apply to an image of a fucking sandwich.
@sibrosan @alexpsmith @benroyce fucking sandwiches - how else do you think canapés are made...?!
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@benroyce I will use them occasionally but mostly I think the happy medium is hashtags. People can mute what they don't want to see without a poster having to meet the impossible demand of 100s of random users needs.
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>Magazines used to print gore
On the other hand, when you picked up Life, you were at home or a waiting room, expecting certain content, and engaged enough that jumping over a fold was expected.
It was not "birthday photo, puppies, corpse rotting on a street, cat photo, a flower arrangement".
Also the people post-WW2 were desensitized to gore due to the war. Meanwhile they thought the Voyager plate (without female genitalia) was pornographic.
"corpse rotting on a street"
anyone who posts that without a CW needs to be banned
but we're not talking about that
we're talking about absurd demands for CW on content that is not gore or porn
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Sure.
I was reflecting how the context is different when reporting of Vietnam War in a contempory magazine, compared to a Mastodon feed of your average person.
You can't say "if this, then that" as context of the picture is different. If you picked a magazine that had a picture report on a war, you expect certain level of.. inhumanity. The CW was the magazine cover.
If you browse Trending on Mastodon, you're certainly not expecting to see corpses.
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@ApostateEnglishman @benroyce @ignova @crow
This is something I've always remarked on Mastodon.
Each one of us has the power to curate our own timelines to our needs. I've had extensive muted word lists in the past when I was feeling particularly sensitive.
Only thing I didn't like was when people skirted around words, so the muting didn't work (example: saying "Orange Turd" instead of "Donald Trump", or not clarifying anywhere).
I still didn't go around telling people what to post.
I have a cat filter and a caturday filter.
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drama!
i need to rant about #ContentWarning creep
i posted once of a Ukrainian reporter whose corpse was abused by Russia. i got calls for #CW. no pictures, no text details, just a link to a story
i suspect some CW calls are a manipulation to hide fascist abuse
certainly some are sincere
but they aren't serving a valid goal. an extreme level of sensitivity is absurd and unactionable
gore? absolutely CW
but some calls serve #fascism by hiding abuse. abuse we rightfully need to broadcast
@benroyce I think others have sort of traversed the other relevant points, but one I don’t see being talked about much is just how American-centric this way of thinking is. It assumes the poster and everybody on mastodon is American (or that American issues are the most important thing to every single user)
In the post you’re refencing, it’s about a kid being assaulted by a cop, with a picture of the assault included. Your reasoning is that it’s too important to CW because fascism is so dangerous. Which is true for you because you’re American, and this is an American event. But what about literally the rest of the world.
For somebody looking at this from any other country who would have preferred a content warning, the message you’re trying to get out is not important enough (to them) to justify having a picture of a cop assaulting somebody shown to them without warning.
And I feel like (and in the case of Palestine, we’ve witnessed time and time again) that if people from a much less ‘important’ place try to raise awareness of atrocities by sharing uncomfortable news and images, they are often hidden, suspended and banned.
Personally, I do often engage and follow US pol, but I have a lot of friends there, as well as my partner so I have a stake in it. But it is because of what I described above that I -cannot- choose to explore mastodon without US pol on days I don’t feel up to seeing it, because of this America-centric mindset people have when posting.
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i do the same
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drama!
i need to rant about #ContentWarning creep
i posted once of a Ukrainian reporter whose corpse was abused by Russia. i got calls for #CW. no pictures, no text details, just a link to a story
i suspect some CW calls are a manipulation to hide fascist abuse
certainly some are sincere
but they aren't serving a valid goal. an extreme level of sensitivity is absurd and unactionable
gore? absolutely CW
but some calls serve #fascism by hiding abuse. abuse we rightfully need to broadcast
@benroyce +1 Ben - as a reader, if your posts trigger me I have the option to mute, block, or simply unfollow you.
I can also reach out to you and if you disagree you can mute, block, or unfollow.
Calling for CW is between two people, if someone is calling for a CW because it might trigger someone else that's a step too far.
That's why the fedi works - too much objectionable content and you slowly drop out of feeds, there's no algorithm boosting you because you are generating ad revenue by being provocative.
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can i argue with them? please?
@benroyce @mastodonmigration @crow my tactic adds a step inside a step for your sequence:
3a: make a [reasoned | trollish] response.
b: set a timer or alarm.
at that time, block them. -
@benroyce @mastodonmigration @crow my tactic adds a step inside a step for your sequence:
3a: make a [reasoned | trollish] response.
b: set a timer or alarm. at that time, block them.A cool social media protocol would let me set a handshake stage in the reply mechanism, allowing ‘when they submit a reply, reject it and notify them they’ve been blocked.’ So they’d burn energy on a reply and then be denied. Of course, some trolls & bots would set that on all their trolling. But that’d just mean each troll would self-block.
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@ApostateEnglishman @benroyce @ignova @crow
This is something I've always remarked on Mastodon.
Each one of us has the power to curate our own timelines to our needs. I've had extensive muted word lists in the past when I was feeling particularly sensitive.
Only thing I didn't like was when people skirted around words, so the muting didn't work (example: saying "Orange Turd" instead of "Donald Trump", or not clarifying anywhere).
I still didn't go around telling people what to post.
@fruitcakesareyum @ApostateEnglishman @benroyce @ignova @crow I don't understand this mastodon sub-etiquette. If you don't like how someone posts, you shouldn't follow them. That's on you.
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A cool social media protocol would let me set a handshake stage in the reply mechanism, allowing ‘when they submit a reply, reject it and notify them they’ve been blocked.’ So they’d burn energy on a reply and then be denied. Of course, some trolls & bots would set that on all their trolling. But that’d just mean each troll would self-block.
i never block
well if someone stalks me to start shit i'll block, but that's less than handful of accounts so far
i push and mock until they block me or i generate enough material to report them
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@benroyce +1 Ben - as a reader, if your posts trigger me I have the option to mute, block, or simply unfollow you.
I can also reach out to you and if you disagree you can mute, block, or unfollow.
Calling for CW is between two people, if someone is calling for a CW because it might trigger someone else that's a step too far.
That's why the fedi works - too much objectionable content and you slowly drop out of feeds, there's no algorithm boosting you because you are generating ad revenue by being provocative.
exactly
if it's gore or porn, report them if they don't CW
if it's anything else (apart from a few specific topics, like strobe effects that might impact people with seizure conditions), and someone demands you CW, you're just dealing with a controlling busybody who doesn't understand it is *their* job to curate *their* feed, not anyone else's job
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i never block
well if someone stalks me to start shit i'll block, but that's less than handful of accounts so far
i push and mock until they block me or i generate enough material to report them
@benroyce I respect that. And I have periods where I engage widely and deeply. But also what I said here:
D2 (@cascheranno@hachyderm.io)
@xgranade@wandering.shop brilliant, but even in taking this time to explain you’re still too kind. I go straight to ‘Life’s Too Short’: If I fucking don’t know someone, trust them, respect them, I have (checks population) [zero divided by 8.3 billion] fucks to give about **them**, let alone anything they might have to say. #LifesTooShort
Hachyderm.io (hachyderm.io)
