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@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae no, just like black people in the usa they fought for their right instead of declaring a black dominent state within the USA. You should know that there was jews who believed in that way rather than creating a state by mass displacing people back then too
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Man, that's exactly the story of Liberia. And no one cared about the dramatic civil war which took place at the beginning of the 2000s there.
Yes, I perfectly know there were Jews who were thinking that, especially the Bund. The problem is that they finished in the gas chambers. That's exactly why history is useful: we learn what kind of emancipation strategies don't work, even if they are more attractive.
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@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Man, that's exactly the story of Liberia. And no one cared about the dramatic civil war which took place at the beginning of the 2000s there.
Yes, I perfectly know there were Jews who were thinking that, especially the Bund. The problem is that they finished in the gas chambers. That's exactly why history is useful: we learn what kind of emancipation strategies don't work, even if they are more attractive.
@vinteuil_ltp it was impossible to evacuate all jews from Germany. So many jews had no choice but to fight in Germany . In other countries non aligned with Germany they would not been gassed, they could have demanded better condition with no mass murder. As history showed us arabs population and jewish population lived together. Even during arab massacres of jews post zionism movement there are other arabs did protect their neighbors and limited the causalities.
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@rae à l'origine c'était un slogan sioniste. C'est peut-être ça qui les met autant en rage.+
@ayl_ : it still is (https://todon.nl/@ErikvanStraten/116250540621135939)
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Am I allowed to share this story?
"police informed him that people who shared a photo of the banner on social media could also be in breach of the prohibited expression laws."
@rae it's time the Palestinians had a fair go.
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@vinteuil_ltp it was impossible to evacuate all jews from Germany. So many jews had no choice but to fight in Germany . In other countries non aligned with Germany they would not been gassed, they could have demanded better condition with no mass murder. As history showed us arabs population and jewish population lived together. Even during arab massacres of jews post zionism movement there are other arabs did protect their neighbors and limited the causalities.
@hiphopheaven It was impossible, but no one tried. Do you know what the Evian conference in 1938 was?
And you don't remember the Antisemitic policies from some of the Eastern socialist countries after 1945 if you believe that. Don't you know that in Poland, in 1946, after the death of 95% of the local Jews, there were still pogroms?
No, no, Jewish population and Arab population didn't just "'live together". Jews were segregated and with less rights than Arab populations. You don't want to see the pogroms in the Arab world before and after Israel (and ethnic cleaning of Jews during the whole 20th century).
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@hiphopheaven It was impossible, but no one tried. Do you know what the Evian conference in 1938 was?
And you don't remember the Antisemitic policies from some of the Eastern socialist countries after 1945 if you believe that. Don't you know that in Poland, in 1946, after the death of 95% of the local Jews, there were still pogroms?
No, no, Jewish population and Arab population didn't just "'live together". Jews were segregated and with less rights than Arab populations. You don't want to see the pogroms in the Arab world before and after Israel (and ethnic cleaning of Jews during the whole 20th century).
@hiphopheaven I am totally sure you are good willing and sincere, but you don't understand how much propaganda there is on those topics and how much the Jewish history is unknown.
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@hiphopheaven It was impossible, but no one tried. Do you know what the Evian conference in 1938 was?
And you don't remember the Antisemitic policies from some of the Eastern socialist countries after 1945 if you believe that. Don't you know that in Poland, in 1946, after the death of 95% of the local Jews, there were still pogroms?
No, no, Jewish population and Arab population didn't just "'live together". Jews were segregated and with less rights than Arab populations. You don't want to see the pogroms in the Arab world before and after Israel (and ethnic cleaning of Jews during the whole 20th century).
@vinteuil_ltp like in every godamn region there is period of times where groups lives together and other time fight each others. You seems to conflate a palestinians, with an arabs with a muslims. The ottoman empire was Turkish not arab for example but most progroms are blamed on the palestinians. Those progroms are weaponized to justify the colonisation of Palestinian land. Some progrom also targetted jews and other groups at same time. Who tooks some jews after the reconquista for example?
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@vinteuil_ltp like in every godamn region there is period of times where groups lives together and other time fight each others. You seems to conflate a palestinians, with an arabs with a muslims. The ottoman empire was Turkish not arab for example but most progroms are blamed on the palestinians. Those progroms are weaponized to justify the colonisation of Palestinian land. Some progrom also targetted jews and other groups at same time. Who tooks some jews after the reconquista for example?
@hiphopheaven I really don't. I just say that all the other countries in the region ended in ethnic cleaning their local Jews (and this is due to nationalism, not religion). Do you really think it would have been different in Palestine without Israel?
Yeah, during the segregation in the US, you could also find some white people who protected Black people. Does that mean segregation didn't exist?
I totally recognize some countries welcomed Jews after the Reconquista, 3/4 of them went to... the Ottoman empire. You recognize it didn't really prevent the Ottoman empire from doing pogroms. -
@hiphopheaven I really don't. I just say that all the other countries in the region ended in ethnic cleaning their local Jews (and this is due to nationalism, not religion). Do you really think it would have been different in Palestine without Israel?
Yeah, during the segregation in the US, you could also find some white people who protected Black people. Does that mean segregation didn't exist?
I totally recognize some countries welcomed Jews after the Reconquista, 3/4 of them went to... the Ottoman empire. You recognize it didn't really prevent the Ottoman empire from doing pogroms.@vinteuil_ltp jews are not safer with Israel. I don't know the percentage but israel definitly contribute to antisemetism. Zionists killed multiple jews like Jacob Israel de haan, the israeli police beat up anti zionism jews in Israel, they call jews against colonization self hated jews. You can repeat how jews was oppressed which is true all you want, it doesn't change the fact israel was created by ethenic cleansing of palestinians and was the only way since jews land was disperced all over
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@hiphopheaven I really don't. I just say that all the other countries in the region ended in ethnic cleaning their local Jews (and this is due to nationalism, not religion). Do you really think it would have been different in Palestine without Israel?
Yeah, during the segregation in the US, you could also find some white people who protected Black people. Does that mean segregation didn't exist?
I totally recognize some countries welcomed Jews after the Reconquista, 3/4 of them went to... the Ottoman empire. You recognize it didn't really prevent the Ottoman empire from doing pogroms.@vinteuil_ltp Yeah, during the segregation in the US, you could also find some white people who protected Black people. Does that mean segregation didn't exist?
It means people of all religion , skin color and ethenic groups can support each others and fight together for everybody rights and freedom and can actually chsnge the leadership responsible of oppression.
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@hiphopheaven I really don't. I just say that all the other countries in the region ended in ethnic cleaning their local Jews (and this is due to nationalism, not religion). Do you really think it would have been different in Palestine without Israel?
Yeah, during the segregation in the US, you could also find some white people who protected Black people. Does that mean segregation didn't exist?
I totally recognize some countries welcomed Jews after the Reconquista, 3/4 of them went to... the Ottoman empire. You recognize it didn't really prevent the Ottoman empire from doing pogroms.@vinteuil_ltp the Ottoman empire. You recognize it didn't really prevent the Ottoman empire from doing pogroms
My point is the same empire or country at some point is hostile to a group and in another era is welcoming. Like i already mentionned Palestinians people welcomed yemeni jews but palestinians are always portrayed like they hate all jews for no reason and that there will never be a solution because of it
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Am I allowed to share this story?
"police informed him that people who shared a photo of the banner on social media could also be in breach of the prohibited expression laws."
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Am I allowed to share this story?
"police informed him that people who shared a photo of the banner on social media could also be in breach of the prohibited expression laws."
For those of us outside Australia: David Crisafulli is the premier of Queensland.
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@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Sure, but no one wanted equal rights back then. Moreover, one only needs to look at the other countries in the region during the 20th century. After independence, equal rights were not particularly established, and Jews continued to face structural discriminatio
@vinteuil_ltp @hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae
I really feel like "no one wanted equal rights" has to be ignoring some people's wants -
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