AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
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@jaffathecake @reflex @ddelemeny jake, I want to make a bit of a weird comparison here (and I beg that you please understand that this is not a threat or anything but a comparative reference)
do you _get_ that if all these conversations were happening in, like, a bar or something, a number of people would by now have asked to have you thrown out? your persistence in reply framing and what you take from posts comes across.... "obstinate" is the best word I can think of
@froztbyte @reflex @ddelemeny hm. I'm replying to people who are engaging with me.
I wouldn't personally ask for someone to be kicked out of a bar for dialogue like this, when I'd directly engaged with them, even if I didn't agree with their point of view. If I didn't want to continue the chat, I'd simply stop chatting.
Your position here is alarming to me, but maybe there's some cultural difference going on that I don't understand.
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@froztbyte @reflex @ddelemeny hm. I'm replying to people who are engaging with me.
I wouldn't personally ask for someone to be kicked out of a bar for dialogue like this, when I'd directly engaged with them, even if I didn't agree with their point of view. If I didn't want to continue the chat, I'd simply stop chatting.
Your position here is alarming to me, but maybe there's some cultural difference going on that I don't understand.
@jaffathecake @reflex @ddelemeny I'm talking about your attitude and style of responses across, well, all the threads the last couple of weeks
a number of people have expressed displeasure and frustration, and (it comes across as though) you just shrug them off
sure, there may be cultural differences, but this dynamic appears as a running theme (and _reinforces_ why people are frustrated)
again, don't mean this as an attack or whatever, but I ... wanted to bring it to your attention
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@jaffathecake @reflex @ddelemeny I'm talking about your attitude and style of responses across, well, all the threads the last couple of weeks
a number of people have expressed displeasure and frustration, and (it comes across as though) you just shrug them off
sure, there may be cultural differences, but this dynamic appears as a running theme (and _reinforces_ why people are frustrated)
again, don't mean this as an attack or whatever, but I ... wanted to bring it to your attention
@froztbyte @reflex @ddelemeny is this something you've done personally? As in, you've engaged someone in conversation in a bar, and they've said something, not abusive, but just something you disagree with. They've made no attempt to talk to you without you talking to them first. And you've asked for them to be removed from the premises?
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@froztbyte @reflex @ddelemeny is this something you've done personally? As in, you've engaged someone in conversation in a bar, and they've said something, not abusive, but just something you disagree with. They've made no attempt to talk to you without you talking to them first. And you've asked for them to be removed from the premises?
@jaffathecake @reflex @ddelemeny yes, I have
it's usually pretty clear when it's necessary (everyone the person speaks to goes no-expression and tries to cut conversations short and/or get away from them)
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@froztbyte @reflex @ddelemeny is this something you've done personally? As in, you've engaged someone in conversation in a bar, and they've said something, not abusive, but just something you disagree with. They've made no attempt to talk to you without you talking to them first. And you've asked for them to be removed from the premises?
@jaffathecake @froztbyte @ddelemeny Um, you are being abusive, though. You are straw manning people's arguments, white knighting things nobody asked you to, and refusing to answer very direct questions, usually while deflecting.
In other words you are not engaging in honest dialog, you appear intractable and dismissive of the audience. If you really believe Fedi is the space you describe it as, nobody is keeping you, or Mozilla here.
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@jaffathecake @reflex @ddelemeny yes, I have
it's usually pretty clear when it's necessary (everyone the person speaks to goes no-expression and tries to cut conversations short and/or get away from them)
@froztbyte @reflex @ddelemeny I agree it can be different if the person is trying to get away, and is unable to, but that absolutely is not the case here, correct?
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@jaffathecake @froztbyte @ddelemeny Um, you are being abusive, though. You are straw manning people's arguments, white knighting things nobody asked you to, and refusing to answer very direct questions, usually while deflecting.
In other words you are not engaging in honest dialog, you appear intractable and dismissive of the audience. If you really believe Fedi is the space you describe it as, nobody is keeping you, or Mozilla here.
@reflex @froztbyte @ddelemeny I don't believe I described Fedi as something negative. What did I miss?
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@reflex @froztbyte @ddelemeny I don't believe I described Fedi as something negative. What did I miss?
@jaffathecake @froztbyte @ddelemeny You are doing it again.
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@froztbyte @reflex @ddelemeny I agree it can be different if the person is trying to get away, and is unable to, but that absolutely is not the case here, correct?
@jaffathecake @reflex @ddelemeny it is in fact exactly the case here
you occupy a position of (some, limited, specific) power: you are the designated voice voice representing a certain aspect of moz/fx here
for _that reason_ people would want to follow you
for _almost every post you make_ people are (per the metaphor) inching away from you
it's ... not great
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@angelfeast @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany there's a pretty clear comparison to rape being drawn in that message. I'm not going to debate this further.
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@angelfeast @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany yep, that's why I said 'compared' and not 'called'.
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@angelfeast @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany yep, that's why I said 'compared' and not 'called'.
@jaffathecake @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany excuse me, semantics. so someone arguing that they feel like you are setting rhetoric up to dismiss others as "anti-ai crazies" is putting words in your mouth, but someone making a rhetorical point about consent is comparing you personally to a rapist and that's not putting words in their mouth. got it.
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@jaffathecake @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany excuse me, semantics. so someone arguing that they feel like you are setting rhetoric up to dismiss others as "anti-ai crazies" is putting words in your mouth, but someone making a rhetorical point about consent is comparing you personally to a rapist and that's not putting words in their mouth. got it.
@angelfeast @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany you're getting hung up on a line that was flagged as tongue-in-cheek with an emoji. But yes, I didn't appreciate the comparison, and blocked the person who made it.
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@jaffathecake @ddelemeny @froztbyte It is dishonest to repeatedly frame your points from the view of marginalized people who did NOT ask you to champion them, and who have an entirely different set of concerns that Mozilla has barely ever recognized or focused on.
If Mozilla actually cared about accessibility, they would focus on accessibility, not scapegoat it as a marketing tool for something else they have decided to do against user wishes.
@reflex @jaffathecake @ddelemeny
> If Mozilla actually cared about accessibilitythe zoomie gif on the post would probably also not have been there
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@davidgerard @duke_of_germany @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs i used to try to assume constructive framing for all arguments like this but since the advent of the slop merchants all bets are off. they are immune to reason because listening to you means they make less money
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@jaffathecake @froztbyte @barubary what I'm hearing here is "the correct reaction is to harass every single person involved in this debacle until they're too afraid to pull more of this shit"
@whitequark @jaffathecake @froztbyte @barubary i would even broaden this to "every person involved in every other debacle just like this happening everywhere at this moment"
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@angelfeast @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany you're getting hung up on a line that was flagged as tongue-in-cheek with an emoji. But yes, I didn't appreciate the comparison, and blocked the person who made it.
@jaffathecake @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany good job not addressing what i was actually saying
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> are you under a directive that explicitly told you not to do that?
No.
> Or perhaps under some implicit kind of situation (e.g. “I know $manager won’t listen”) which made you not even consider that?
No, but a poll that gives me the evidence to say "hey, you know that place that has a strong representation of people who don't like AI? They don't like AI." did not seem like a good use of my time.
@jaffathecake @froztbyte @barubary
Is that place Mozilla's own bugtracker? This mess started their awhile back.
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@jaffathecake @froztbyte @barubary
Is that place Mozilla's own bugtracker? This mess started their awhile back.
@fennix I'm not sure what this is in reply to. I think you're asking if Bugzilla is a place to do something in particular, but I'm not sure what.
