I'm not here to bash Wayland.

[yakkoj@fosstodon.org]

I'm not here to bash Wayland. My expectation that all my old X clients Just Work if Wayland is suddenly the display system is very reasonable, though, and it's an expectation of users who don't know Wayland from X, from GDI

[brouhaha@mastodon.social]

@yakkoj
I'm here to diss Wayland and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of bubblegum.
Designing an X11 replacement that fails to meet some of the common X11 use cases seems absurd to me.
I'm not talking about interoperability with X11. I mean that Wayland should have natively supported the common use cases of X11,
rather than throwing away the ones that seemed hard.

[leeloo@c.im]

@brouhaha @yakkoj
I never got the feeling that they threw away the ones that seemed hard.

They started out with the view that how X11 does things is wrong. So they will not do that. If a usecase can be solved two ways, and X11 does it one way and the other requires instant teleportation, they will not do it the X11 way.

[datenwolf@chaos.social]

@yakkoj @brouhaha

Wayland is, what you arrive at, if one looks only at the lowest common denominator toolkits, which also happened to pull a Bender with respect to how to do rasterization and configuration management: You'll only see MIT-SHM and video acceleration surfaces being passed around, have a look at the spec and mistake the map for the territory.

On that note, I think I'm one of the earliest Wayland "haters".

[marshray@infosec.exchange]

@brouhaha @yakkoj Some of the things X11 allowed were bad, actually, especially if you used it remotely as intended.

It’s rare to find an open source platform team that’s willing to say ‘no’ to features for security. That’s why I like mutter.

[paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange]

@leeloo @brouhaha @yakkoj

there are a group of folks that did the same with ipv4 vs ipv6. if ipv4 did something a certain way, it must be wrong. it's made implementation and adoption so much harder and slower.

expecting busy and overworked sysadmins and computer users to throw away all the hard won knowledge of how things work is not the way to get fast adoption of something new...