drama!
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@benroyce@mastodon.social
Mhm. I see your point and I am not saying you are wrong because I wanna ponder this a bit. But I wanna offer a counter argument to see what you think about it.
We don't know what may cause people problems.
I have a common phobia for example, but less common than arachnophobia. People sometimes posts spiders with cw. People never post the thing I'm afraid of with cw.
To them the thing is harmless, they don't even think that someone had to quickly look away and scroll the page down. They don't know they likely caused nightmares and worse sleep than usual.
To a victim of abuse maybe even reading about a topic is enough.
Your point of CW as a fascism tool to kinda censor things is an interesting one though.i would reply with:
some topics are cut and dry obvious CW topics
but some topics are only triggering for some, some topics for a few, and some topics for vanishingly few
and so the question is where we draw the line
and it is simply a matter that we can draw the line at the wrong spot, in either direction
such that there is no clear answer, it is a large grey area. and it all depends on intricacies of context and intent and the exact nature of the content
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I tried but nobody said anything about it.
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What happened in 2024 Trump is of course trying to do again.
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drama!
i need to rant about #ContentWarning creep
i posted once of a Ukrainian reporter whose corpse was abused by Russia. i got calls for #CW. no pictures, no text details, just a link to a story
i suspect some CW calls are a manipulation to hide fascist abuse
certainly some are sincere
but they aren't serving a valid goal. an extreme level of sensitivity is absurd and unactionable
gore? absolutely CW
but some calls serve #fascism by hiding abuse. abuse we rightfully need to broadcast
@benroyce If you look through mainstream news photo annuals from WWII to the 1970s, or Life magazine, it’s astonishing how much gore they printed. Our contemporary media has protected society from the real violence of everyday life as well as war. Instead, we have a cartoon or video game understanding of what real,violence entails.
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@benroyce If you look through mainstream news photo annuals from WWII to the 1970s, or Life magazine, it’s astonishing how much gore they printed. Our contemporary media has protected society from the real violence of everyday life as well as war. Instead, we have a cartoon or video game understanding of what real,violence entails.
i completely agree
we should be sensitive to people with content warnings
but some calls for CW are fucking absurd
and i suspect some of them are a manipulation tactic to hide fascist abuses. and if not, then some people need to understand that that is the only effect of their desires
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i would reply with:
some topics are cut and dry obvious CW topics
but some topics are only triggering for some, some topics for a few, and some topics for vanishingly few
and so the question is where we draw the line
and it is simply a matter that we can draw the line at the wrong spot, in either direction
such that there is no clear answer, it is a large grey area. and it all depends on intricacies of context and intent and the exact nature of the content
@benroyce@mastodon.social
Yeah I agree. A thing I say about this topic is what do we do? Do we content warning everything because there's potential triggers everywhere? Do we cw only some stuff, leaving some to unfairly deal with their phobia/trauma? Or do we stop using cw completely?
I think, the way things are now we have no good tools for this.
The built in cw tool is the stuff one would use for graphic things you don't wanna risk opening around people (boobies, corpses...) But we need a solid system that allow us to post stuff and let people filter what they don't want to see.
Example, if I post a spider I could avoid adding a cw, but I could add a hashtag and people with arachnophobia could have a filter than removes spiders from their timeline.
But I'm going off topic here. -
@benroyce@mastodon.social
Yeah I agree. A thing I say about this topic is what do we do? Do we content warning everything because there's potential triggers everywhere? Do we cw only some stuff, leaving some to unfairly deal with their phobia/trauma? Or do we stop using cw completely?
I think, the way things are now we have no good tools for this.
The built in cw tool is the stuff one would use for graphic things you don't wanna risk opening around people (boobies, corpses...) But we need a solid system that allow us to post stuff and let people filter what they don't want to see.
Example, if I post a spider I could avoid adding a cw, but I could add a hashtag and people with arachnophobia could have a filter than removes spiders from their timeline.
But I'm going off topic here.no you're not going off topic, appropriate hashtagging is absolutely necessary for this grey zone
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drama!
i need to rant about #ContentWarning creep
i posted once of a Ukrainian reporter whose corpse was abused by Russia. i got calls for #CW. no pictures, no text details, just a link to a story
i suspect some CW calls are a manipulation to hide fascist abuse
certainly some are sincere
but they aren't serving a valid goal. an extreme level of sensitivity is absurd and unactionable
gore? absolutely CW
but some calls serve #fascism by hiding abuse. abuse we rightfully need to broadcast
@benroyce I think there is nuance here around where we go for news. Some people come to fedi just to play with their friends, they receive their news from other places and share links with friends and family via signal. Sharing something without a content warning because "everyone needs to see this" implies that everyone isn't already reading the news in other places, putting us a savior/beacon for distributing news that is readily available everywhere. We are aware of the horrors, very very very aware, we are building momentum of revolution. And sometimes we just need a breather from the horrors because the horrors invade every single point of our lives. I do post about #uspol because I want to be a part of the conversations and I want to find other people who align in the revolution. Fighting over how we disseminate information is not going to bring more people to greater awareness. We also need spaces of softness and whimsy to keep us grounded in the tender possibilities of what CAN be built when we aren't lost in the madness of it all.
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no you're not going off topic, appropriate hashtagging is absolutely necessary for this grey zone
@benroyce@mastodon.social
I've been saying it for a while but it's not something people hear me out about and often tell me it's not the way to go.
It's refreshing to find someone who agrees with me on this. -
@benroyce I think there is nuance here around where we go for news. Some people come to fedi just to play with their friends, they receive their news from other places and share links with friends and family via signal. Sharing something without a content warning because "everyone needs to see this" implies that everyone isn't already reading the news in other places, putting us a savior/beacon for distributing news that is readily available everywhere. We are aware of the horrors, very very very aware, we are building momentum of revolution. And sometimes we just need a breather from the horrors because the horrors invade every single point of our lives. I do post about #uspol because I want to be a part of the conversations and I want to find other people who align in the revolution. Fighting over how we disseminate information is not going to bring more people to greater awareness. We also need spaces of softness and whimsy to keep us grounded in the tender possibilities of what CAN be built when we aren't lost in the madness of it all.
that is very well said
i would respond that the mode of how we use social media or mastodon as you describe is valid, but you're not describing the only valid approach
and the solution to that is unfollowing/ blocking those accounts that stand very far away from your own intent in such a way it impedes your enjoyment
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@benroyce@mastodon.social
I've been saying it for a while but it's not something people hear me out about and often tell me it's not the way to go.
It's refreshing to find someone who agrees with me on this. -
there's more CW topics than just gore and porn
strobe effects are not good for people with certain seizure conditions for example
do we censor a picture of a creepy spider?
and if some people want to content warn *their* posts on levels of sensitivity you and i might consider absurd: that's ok, it's their post, their choice
where i step in and speak out though is when people gatekeep other posters on content that is not straight gore or porn or the other serious niche topics
Generally, this falls into the HOA category that puts people off Mastodon.
If you don't like the way someone else uses Mastodon you should block them. Then you will never see their transgressions. It is not your job to tell people how to use Mastodon, nor is it appreciated.
Exceptions include things which violate the server's rules. Then you should block them and report them.
It's very simple.
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@benroyce I think there is nuance here around where we go for news. Some people come to fedi just to play with their friends, they receive their news from other places and share links with friends and family via signal. Sharing something without a content warning because "everyone needs to see this" implies that everyone isn't already reading the news in other places, putting us a savior/beacon for distributing news that is readily available everywhere. We are aware of the horrors, very very very aware, we are building momentum of revolution. And sometimes we just need a breather from the horrors because the horrors invade every single point of our lives. I do post about #uspol because I want to be a part of the conversations and I want to find other people who align in the revolution. Fighting over how we disseminate information is not going to bring more people to greater awareness. We also need spaces of softness and whimsy to keep us grounded in the tender possibilities of what CAN be built when we aren't lost in the madness of it all.
@MamaLake No one owes anyone a CW. Those are up to the user, and it is the responsibility of the viewer to decide how they will react or respond.
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Generally, this falls into the HOA category that puts people off Mastodon.
If you don't like the way someone else uses Mastodon you should block them. Then you will never see their transgressions. It is not your job to tell people how to use Mastodon, nor is it appreciated.
Exceptions include things which violate the server's rules. Then you should block them and report them.
It's very simple.
yeah
busy body controlling types ruin mastodon
they don't understand how toxic they are and how much they work against true community, exactly as they use the lying conceit of "concern for community" to gatekeep, gatekeep, gatekeep
1. unfollow
2. mute
3. block
4. report
in that order
that's the solution
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drama!
i need to rant about #ContentWarning creep
i posted once of a Ukrainian reporter whose corpse was abused by Russia. i got calls for #CW. no pictures, no text details, just a link to a story
i suspect some CW calls are a manipulation to hide fascist abuse
certainly some are sincere
but they aren't serving a valid goal. an extreme level of sensitivity is absurd and unactionable
gore? absolutely CW
but some calls serve #fascism by hiding abuse. abuse we rightfully need to broadcast
@benroyce Man, I am sick to death of people trying to enforce CWs. Responsible adults do NOT expect others to placate their sensibilities/fears/etc.
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yeah
busy body controlling types ruin mastodon
they don't understand how toxic they are and how much they work against true community, exactly as they use the lying conceit of "concern for community" to gatekeep, gatekeep, gatekeep
1. unfollow
2. mute
3. block
4. report
in that order
that's the solution
The simple response is to block them. If someone tries to tell you how to use Mastodon just block them.
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can i argue with them? please?
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can i argue with them? please?
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@benroyce I think there is nuance here around where we go for news. Some people come to fedi just to play with their friends, they receive their news from other places and share links with friends and family via signal. Sharing something without a content warning because "everyone needs to see this" implies that everyone isn't already reading the news in other places, putting us a savior/beacon for distributing news that is readily available everywhere. We are aware of the horrors, very very very aware, we are building momentum of revolution. And sometimes we just need a breather from the horrors because the horrors invade every single point of our lives. I do post about #uspol because I want to be a part of the conversations and I want to find other people who align in the revolution. Fighting over how we disseminate information is not going to bring more people to greater awareness. We also need spaces of softness and whimsy to keep us grounded in the tender possibilities of what CAN be built when we aren't lost in the madness of it all.
@benroyce we have the freedom to post exactly as we want to AND we have the freedom to block posters that don't bring value (value defined beyond money) into our worlds.
I got into an internet fight with an economics journalist because he was antagonizing people about content warnings and how no one would see his posts if he used content warnings. Which makes me wonder how good a journalist is if he can't write a headline on a CW that would create appropriate engagement. A CW header doesn't just have to list all of the triggering items, it can be used just like a headline.
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don't tell me what to do!
(i'm sorry, i'm agreeing with you completely and feeling the need to joke lamely)
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there's more CW topics than just gore and porn
strobe effects are not good for people with certain seizure conditions for example
do we censor a picture of a creepy spider?
and if some people want to content warn *their* posts on levels of sensitivity you and i might consider absurd: that's ok, it's their post, their choice
where i step in and speak out though is when people gatekeep other posters on content that is not straight gore or porn or the other serious niche topics
@benroyce @crow i think there is a significant and unjustified shifting of blame going on when people say that normal posts have 'caused' panic attacks, nightmares, and so on.
non-extreme posts are not the primary cause of mental health tailspins. a picture of a sandwich does not 'cause' someone to spiral into an eating disorder relapse. if something so innocuous sets that person off, they were already on the brink, and it's unfair to blame the sandwich poster for severe mental health issues that were actually caused by something else.
