This is the key difference:
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@benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl I spent 3 hours yesterday doing my US taxes, because of our baroque and convoluted tax code. I spent roughly the same amount of time in November researching the bewildering number of California and San Francisco ballot measures and down-ballot candidates, often with deliberately misleading titles. And that's despite helpful voting guides doing the research legwork.
Throwing unmotivated low-information voters at elections by compulsory voting, essentially random number generators influenced by political advertising only the powers-that-be can afford, is not a prescription for good outcomes.
@fazalmajid @benroyce @randahl
I live in the Netherlands. If I didn't have my own small company, it would take me a visit to the government tax website, a run through everything they already know about me (just to check) and a press on the button: maybe 15 minutes. And usually I get money back.
My company takes more time, but that is my own choice. -
@randahl
So we can have Trump replaced with a different racist far-right populist, just like they got in Hungary?
It's a massive relief for the rest of Europe that they got rid of their traitorous Putinbot, but we need better Democratic candidates and meaningful democratic protections.We don't need better Democrats, we need smarter voters.
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@sasanb @randahl Have you looked at Magyar? That's one more aspect where Hungarians are more pragmatic (and honestly smarter) than Americans, and understand what are the viable options on the table, and that you can't let the perfect be the enemy of "not catastrophic".
The correct choice in the US is to elect the spineless democrat to make sure you are still allowed to do opposition, and then start preparing an effective opposition on day 0.These people are in a leftist cult, just as brainwashed as MAGA. They will sit there and tell you to your face that one of the most liberal senators in Congress was identical to Trump. They have no connection with reality, and Bernie has played a significant part in their indoctrination.
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We don't need better Democrats, we need smarter voters.
@HakeemG @randahl
You really are just a shill for the Democratic Party centrists. It literally can't get anymore disconnected than "we're perfect, but the voters need to learn to care about what we tell them to."Kamala Harris & co haven't gotten any better. You're just doubling down on it being sufficient that their GOP opposition has gotten worse.
What an incredibly defeatist, destructive, and disgusting approach to politics and governance.
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@HakeemG @randahl
You really are just a shill for the Democratic Party centrists. It literally can't get anymore disconnected than "we're perfect, but the voters need to learn to care about what we tell them to."Kamala Harris & co haven't gotten any better. You're just doubling down on it being sufficient that their GOP opposition has gotten worse.
What an incredibly defeatist, destructive, and disgusting approach to politics and governance.
I didn't say the Democrats were perfect, far from it, but voters electing Trump TWICE are F'ing morons, and if you don't know that I've got bad news for you.
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I didn't say the Democrats were perfect, far from it, but voters electing Trump TWICE are F'ing morons, and if you don't know that I've got bad news for you.
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I spend more time attacking them because they're in a cult and they refuse to admit that they helped put Nazis into power with their both sides are the same bullshit. Kind of like your original comment.
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@randahl you assume citizens can vote peacefully instead of ICE collecting anyone of color or just about anyone in democrat districts.
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@fazalmajid @benroyce @randahl
I live in the Netherlands. If I didn't have my own small company, it would take me a visit to the government tax website, a run through everything they already know about me (just to check) and a press on the button: maybe 15 minutes. And usually I get money back.
My company takes more time, but that is my own choice.@GoSeiGer @benroyce @randahl Sure, but I remember circa 2000 when I worked in Amsterdam, my Duch sales rep from Worldcom bemoaning how the Dutch tax authorities had insisted they do a Black-Scholes cptions pricing calculation to value their stock options and calculate their income tax liability, and he ended up losing money on them. Even the IRS hasn't gone that far...
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl 2024 had the second highest turnout in a US presidential election since 1968. While yes more turnout is a good thing, I would not assume it would have actually changed the results.
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@imanormalperson @GoSeiGer @randahl
if someone doesn't vote, you can talk about valid reasons for that, and i have no problem with their valid reasons for not voting
but you can also talk about people who don't vote for invalid reasons
both camps exist
and i am continually needing to say that my words are scoped *only* to those people who can vote, but simply choose not to
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@imanormalperson @GoSeiGer @randahl
"fighting for the people that want to vote"
yes
that's called voting
so anyone who can vote, but doesn't, is betraying those who are disenfranchised
so join me in castigating such assholes
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@randahl
Here in Brazil voting is not considered as a right, but as duty to democracy, not voting is penalized with a fine. USians allowing themselves to not vote is completely baffling.@blaue_Fledermaus @randahl Canada too.
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@imanormalperson @GoSeiGer @randahl
"other forms of political action are necessary"
oh yeah? like what?
"voting alone isnt going to fix gerrymandering and systemic oppression"
if people fucking showed up, it will fix that
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
Hungary kept their problematic leader for 16 consecutive years. Don't be like them!
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@imanormalperson @GoSeiGer @randahl
and such politicians are aided by people who can vote, but just give up and accept their abuse
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@imanormalperson @GoSeiGer @randahl
so you vote, and sustain, and iterate, and shit gets better
but if you go community organize, and ignore the vote, then we go full fascist, and so they just show up and machine gun us while laughing
please: community organize
*and* vote
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@imanormalperson @GoSeiGer @randahl
right, and i continually encounter this
me: "everyone vote"
"some people can't vote"
me: "yes, i know, i'm not talking about those who can't, i'm talking about those who won't"
"we should do other things"
me: "yes i know, i never said we shouldn't. organize, educate, protest, boycott, resist: do it, all of it. and vote"
i've been in this conversation 1,000 times
