This is the key difference:
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@benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl if there were any high-school civics-class arguments about compulsory voting in my youth (in 1980s San Diego, anyway) I do not recall them. the idea has never seemed popular for whatever reason. I myself have long wondered: is there something wrong with codifying a national right to vote and strictly regulating what a "political campaign" even IS? what's the legal or moral basis for the free-wheeling, easily corruptible shitshow that we've got now?
@benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl I point out that if elections and campaign shit were nationalized more or less, confined to their particular bureau of the federal government, it would make the round-the-clock campaign season style of political reporting considerably less infuriating. at least if there's a "Department of Elections" I would expect propaganda blasts from them, but there's no such thing so instead political campaign evils practically seep out of the ground, like this was the last scene of Madoka Magica or something.
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl This is why republicans are so heavily invested in voter supression strategies. They know this is true, so they want to make it as difficult as possible for people to do, to discourage people from doing it, and it works.
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@benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl if there were any high-school civics-class arguments about compulsory voting in my youth (in 1980s San Diego, anyway) I do not recall them. the idea has never seemed popular for whatever reason. I myself have long wondered: is there something wrong with codifying a national right to vote and strictly regulating what a "political campaign" even IS? what's the legal or moral basis for the free-wheeling, easily corruptible shitshow that we've got now?
@mxchara @benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl
#Australia has #compulsoryvoting.
There is postal voting open weeks ahead. There is a week of pre-poll voting where voting booths are open before voting day so you can go from work, or for older or disabled people to avoid queues.
Our voting days are always on a Saturday, to help those who work on weekdays.
There are multiple polling booths in big cities, and several in smaller towns so usually easy or close to work or home. Often we vote in a local school or community hall.
It is compulsory to be on a local Electoral Roll and we are checked off against that. We therefore do not need identification.
To sum up - because it is compulsory it is made as easy and accessible as possible for everyone to vote.
In fact it is usually a perfectly easy, fairly quick procedure. It is good humoured and friendly, you see your friends and neighbours often on voluntary cake stalls or #DemocracySausage sizzles using the crowds to raise money for charities.
If #USA had compulsory voting and a straightforward system where the majority vote wins, I do not believe they would have had the horrendous results they are living with now.
I am eternally thankful for the fairness of the Australian voting system.
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@benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl I point out that if elections and campaign shit were nationalized more or less, confined to their particular bureau of the federal government, it would make the round-the-clock campaign season style of political reporting considerably less infuriating. at least if there's a "Department of Elections" I would expect propaganda blasts from them, but there's no such thing so instead political campaign evils practically seep out of the ground, like this was the last scene of Madoka Magica or something.
@mxchara @benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl That would involve limiting freedom of speech/expression, as there is no other way to stop people from promoting themselves in the general sphere, and it could introduce new problems by, say, defining a campaign as any promotion undertaken by a declared candidate - but surely a currently elected official or someone considering running might also be campaigning without yet being on the ballot?
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl you assume citizens can vote peacefully instead of ICE collecting anyone of color or just about anyone in democrat districts.
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl
i say a VOTE OUT
skip work and vote, by the millions -
@randahl
Here in Brazil voting is not considered as a right, but as duty to democracy, not voting is penalized with a fine. USians allowing themselves to not vote is completely baffling.@blaue_Fledermaus
But the black lady candidateb smiled too much!
@randahl @northernlights -
@RantingCanuck @benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl
It's called voting on Sundays which is what most countries do. -
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@randahl
Here in Brazil voting is not considered as a right, but as duty to democracy, not voting is penalized with a fine. USians allowing themselves to not vote is completely baffling.@blaue_Fledermaus @randahl Privileged Yankee kids that never had to fight for democracy. Now everybody else in the rest of the world have to pay for their purity.
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
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@RantingCanuck @benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl
It's called voting on Sundays which is what most countries do.@elCelio @RantingCanuck @benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl I think that's the point, let it happen on Sundays, everyone with proven citizenship (ID card/passport) above a certain age is allowed to vote and support mail in ballots (don't know if that is the right term).
That's all the magic. Take solid steps against gerrymandering but please no mandatory voting. In Germany during 3.Reich there was "Wahlschleppdienst" and that's not a good idea.
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl This, while among the highest turnouts for presidential elections, was not the highest. That honour goes to the 2020 election with 65% according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections
Though, to be fair, I haven't checked to see how this compares to other Hungarian elections.
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@LukefromDC we have to remember that whatever corruption that Trump has installed, it pales in comparison to what Orban was able to do in 16 continuous years in power. Even with all the levers of power in his grasp, he still couldn't turn back a tidal wave.
Orban was the prototype Western authoritarian. Trump's the Temo version. Of course, Russia's got a hand in all of this too, but they seem to be having some problems of their own lately.
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@randahl you assume citizens can vote peacefully instead of ICE collecting anyone of color or just about anyone in democrat districts.
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@mxchara @benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl That would involve limiting freedom of speech/expression, as there is no other way to stop people from promoting themselves in the general sphere, and it could introduce new problems by, say, defining a campaign as any promotion undertaken by a declared candidate - but surely a currently elected official or someone considering running might also be campaigning without yet being on the ballot?
@WhiteCatTamer @benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl ugh. it's difficult to argue against the free-speech angle: compartmentalizing elections and party politics seems like a non-starter
could maybe...ONE thing be standardized at least, and that's the season? would it be possible at least to say something like "the campaign season is exactly one month long" or something that isn't practically round the clock the way it seems now? would a time-dependent restriction on political speech be legit
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@sasanb @randahl Have you looked at Magyar? That's one more aspect where Hungarians are more pragmatic (and honestly smarter) than Americans, and understand what are the viable options on the table, and that you can't let the perfect be the enemy of "not catastrophic".
The correct choice in the US is to elect the spineless democrat to make sure you are still allowed to do opposition, and then start preparing an effective opposition on day 0. -
This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl The problem is, the GOP is actively trying to reduce the voter pool.
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@randahl This is why republicans are so heavily invested in voter supression strategies. They know this is true, so they want to make it as difficult as possible for people to do, to discourage people from doing it, and it works.
@maccruiskeen @randahl Magyar had very little access to Hungarian media, the overwhelming majority of which is owned either by the state or by Fidesz oligarchs. Tisza leaders and supporters faced personal obstacles as well. A Tisza politician said his wife lost her job and friends stay away after he announced his support for Magyar. Tisza’s database was hacked and posted online, to encourage harassment of party members. 3 weeks ago, many Budapest Tisza leaders would speak only off the record.
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nah turn out is the most important thing
i used to be against compulsory voting. i thought "you can't force people to care"
but now i'm for it
because just getting some of these lazy assholes in the voting booth should be enough
sure some will draw dicks on their ballots but the results are close enough that just a few percentage points of nonvoters begrudgingly finally making a choice is enough to make the difference
@benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl I spent 3 hours yesterday doing my US taxes, because of our baroque and convoluted tax code. I spent roughly the same amount of time in November researching the bewildering number of California and San Francisco ballot measures and down-ballot candidates, often with deliberately misleading titles. And that's despite helpful voting guides doing the research legwork.
Throwing unmotivated low-information voters at elections by compulsory voting, essentially random number generators influenced by political advertising only the powers-that-be can afford, is not a prescription for good outcomes.
