Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
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@mikesax not all cars use 433 MHz sensors. Our Volkswagen uses the wheel speed sensors to calculate minute speed differences. But is on all the time
I used rtl_433 to capture temperature sensor data at home. My home assistant got flooded with new sensors, thousands of them, because it wasn't possible to filter stuff before they were discovered by home assistant as new sensors. All of these were tire pressure sensors of cars driving by.
> Our Volkswagen uses the wheel speed sensors to calculate minute speed differences.
Yep, this is called indirect TPMS. We have that on our Volvo XC40 too. It doesn't require special sensors, as it uses the wheel rotation-speed sensors already in place as part of the ABS system: if the left and the right wheel don't rotate at the same angular rate, that means that the car is slipping (-> ABS) or one of the tyres has a smaller radius due to underpressure (-> TPMS).
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Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you - IMDEA Networks
Researchers at IMDEA Networks Institute, together with European partners, have found that tire pressure sensors in modern cars can unintentionally expose drivers to tracking. Over a ten-week study, they collected signals from more than 20,000 vehicles, revealing a hidden privacy risk and highlighting the need for stronger security measures in future vehicle sensor systems. Most...
IMDEA Networks (networks.imdea.org)
@mikesax Your phone and your headset and your other Bluetooth gadgets also do broadcast unique IDs that definitely allow to track you.
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@radio_alelopatia @mikesax doesn't have that.. yet!
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@lackthereof @wwahammy ...
I am merely pointing out that cars are trackable by design and such blunders just save money on needing to add a good camera (and bit more CPU for plate number recognition) to a tracker design.(and a Flipper zero is a bit more discrete that a Pi5 + good camera pointed at a street)
@dryak @lackthereof @wwahammy You have to get the IDs first in order to track the cars. TPMS devices are part of the tyre valve and its easy to just swap them out. Just changing the wheels does that. So its not reliable tracking. One of the standard functions of a decent code reader is updating pairing the TPMS devices to the car. I’ve never worried about them because I usually have my phone in the car and they can track that if they want!
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Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you - IMDEA Networks
Researchers at IMDEA Networks Institute, together with European partners, have found that tire pressure sensors in modern cars can unintentionally expose drivers to tracking. Over a ten-week study, they collected signals from more than 20,000 vehicles, revealing a hidden privacy risk and highlighting the need for stronger security measures in future vehicle sensor systems. Most...
IMDEA Networks (networks.imdea.org)
@mikesax @etchedpixels That 50 metre is totally ideal circumstances. TPMS systems typically don’t work more than a couple of metres. The sensor is behind the wheel arch trim so they don’t have to be read more than a few cm away. Some only work when the wheel moves. The movement of the wheel induces the current used to transmit the ID and tyre pressure. They have to he paired with the car and are relatively easily replaceable. And there are a lot easier ways to track a car. Also you are only finding out about this now? My 12 year old mini has it!
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Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you - IMDEA Networks
Researchers at IMDEA Networks Institute, together with European partners, have found that tire pressure sensors in modern cars can unintentionally expose drivers to tracking. Over a ten-week study, they collected signals from more than 20,000 vehicles, revealing a hidden privacy risk and highlighting the need for stronger security measures in future vehicle sensor systems. Most...
IMDEA Networks (networks.imdea.org)
@mikesax surely this is not news, though? Did people not know this?
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Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you - IMDEA Networks
Researchers at IMDEA Networks Institute, together with European partners, have found that tire pressure sensors in modern cars can unintentionally expose drivers to tracking. Over a ten-week study, they collected signals from more than 20,000 vehicles, revealing a hidden privacy risk and highlighting the need for stronger security measures in future vehicle sensor systems. Most...
IMDEA Networks (networks.imdea.org)
@mikesax Haha joke’s on the attacker. I have a Fiat-Chrysler and my TPS sensors stopped working like a decade ago.
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Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you - IMDEA Networks
Researchers at IMDEA Networks Institute, together with European partners, have found that tire pressure sensors in modern cars can unintentionally expose drivers to tracking. Over a ten-week study, they collected signals from more than 20,000 vehicles, revealing a hidden privacy risk and highlighting the need for stronger security measures in future vehicle sensor systems. Most...
IMDEA Networks (networks.imdea.org)
@mikesax so you could steal one wheel from a car to confuse cops?
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Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you - IMDEA Networks
Researchers at IMDEA Networks Institute, together with European partners, have found that tire pressure sensors in modern cars can unintentionally expose drivers to tracking. Over a ten-week study, they collected signals from more than 20,000 vehicles, revealing a hidden privacy risk and highlighting the need for stronger security measures in future vehicle sensor systems. Most...
IMDEA Networks (networks.imdea.org)
@mikesax Love it. Public transport users have been tracked everywhere they go for decades. Time to track these cars wherever they go. See how they like it.
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Holy shit, I knew this felt familiar.
Reijo Pitkänen (@reijomancer@defcon.social)
While filling up my tires, I thought to myself, "Wouldn't it be funny if you could track people with their TPMS noise? It's probably not obfuscated or rotated in any way like Bluetooth or MAC addresses, and everything with tires after 2008 has four to 12 of these things constantly broadcasting some sort of ID in addition to it's environmental data." Once again, some had to have written a Flipper zero app for this, right? Alternative use: automatic gate opener or a presence sensor for a vehicle or trailer.
DEF CON Social (defcon.social)
The #VW ID.4 does not have TPMS sensors. It calculates tire pressure by measuring tire rotation. It is connected to the cellular data network independent of your phone.
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Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you - IMDEA Networks
Researchers at IMDEA Networks Institute, together with European partners, have found that tire pressure sensors in modern cars can unintentionally expose drivers to tracking. Over a ten-week study, they collected signals from more than 20,000 vehicles, revealing a hidden privacy risk and highlighting the need for stronger security measures in future vehicle sensor systems. Most...
IMDEA Networks (networks.imdea.org)
@mikesax there's also usually a plate of numbers on the front and back of the car, visible by plain sight, that can be and is being used for tracking -
@mikesax there's also usually a plate of numbers on the front and back of the car, visible by plain sight, that can be and is being used for tracking
nowadays you can also expect surveillance cameras to do not only that but also feeding that into AI
@mira @mikesax@mas.to
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Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you - IMDEA Networks
Researchers at IMDEA Networks Institute, together with European partners, have found that tire pressure sensors in modern cars can unintentionally expose drivers to tracking. Over a ten-week study, they collected signals from more than 20,000 vehicles, revealing a hidden privacy risk and highlighting the need for stronger security measures in future vehicle sensor systems. Most...
IMDEA Networks (networks.imdea.org)
@mikesax Well, that's interesting..
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The #VW ID.4 does not have TPMS sensors. It calculates tire pressure by measuring tire rotation. It is connected to the cellular data network independent of your phone.
@Stinson_108 @reijomancer That's... Even worse.
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@dryak @lackthereof @wwahammy You have to get the IDs first in order to track the cars. TPMS devices are part of the tyre valve and its easy to just swap them out. Just changing the wheels does that. So its not reliable tracking. One of the standard functions of a decent code reader is updating pairing the TPMS devices to the car. I’ve never worried about them because I usually have my phone in the car and they can track that if they want!
@cyberspice @dryak @lackthereof @wwahammy "Just" change all 4 tyres... Really? That's your answer?
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@mikesax Love it. Public transport users have been tracked everywhere they go for decades. Time to track these cars wherever they go. See how they like it.
@elricofmelnibone @mikesax Cars had numberplates long before phone-based tickets became a thing.
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Today I learned that nearly every modern car has four tire pressure sensors that broadcast a unique ID in clear text, so a basic Raspberry Pi scanner can track when your car is nearby.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you - IMDEA Networks
Researchers at IMDEA Networks Institute, together with European partners, have found that tire pressure sensors in modern cars can unintentionally expose drivers to tracking. Over a ten-week study, they collected signals from more than 20,000 vehicles, revealing a hidden privacy risk and highlighting the need for stronger security measures in future vehicle sensor systems. Most...
IMDEA Networks (networks.imdea.org)
@mikesax it’s like these sensor providers are making vehicles easier to surveil by not designing with security in mind.
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@mikesax Every single part of modern cars is a privacy/security nightmare.
@nazokiyoubinbou @mikesax That is why I stick to my 15 years old car. No emitting wireless components. Not even bluetooth radio. Suspension broke once, which was my own fault. That's all. According to the opinion of my trusted mechanics, all modern cars are crap and also a nightmare to maintain.
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@cyberspice @dryak @lackthereof @wwahammy "Just" change all 4 tyres... Really? That's your answer?
@Dss @cyberspice @lackthereof @wwahammy
Cyberspice mentions "Just swap them out" about "tire *valve*" (e.g. buy a new set of valves with better security in the firmware).Regarding swapping the 4 wheels: given some countries do this twice a year (mar/oct) to adapt to weather conditions, an evil ploy to track some car with tire IDs will answer back with a position staying permanently in the cellar for 6 months.
And again, if you're afraid of cars getting tracked, there are bigger targets.
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@mikesax some phones also broadcast a unique WiFi MAC address that anyone could use to track you (some phones rotate random MAC addresses for this reason; only governments telecoms, and big tech should be able to track you). I think most phones periodically broadcast the SSIDs you normally connect to, so anyone could record those, go to wigle.net and try to figure out where you live and work.
