Your regular reminder that "the rich" aren't people who earn large paychecks.
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And noteworthily: a NYT opinions journalist who earns a $120k salary and another $200k on their investments and tenant rent absolutely _is_ part of the capitalist class and rich, even though their income is lower than the hypothetical surgeon's!
@clarity the worst part is they're almost certainly taxed a lot less than the surgeon, possibly to the point where they end up with more money -
Your regular reminder that "the rich" aren't people who earn large paychecks. They are people with capital that generates returns: investments, property, company shares. "High income earners" are not an intrinsic enemy of "the working class" – many of them are a member of it!
@clarity Pretty much why I tend to instead say bourgeoisie or capitalist instead of "rich" or worse "1%", even though I feel like that could make some people react badly. -
Your regular reminder that "the rich" aren't people who earn large paychecks. They are people with capital that generates returns: investments, property, company shares. "High income earners" are not an intrinsic enemy of "the working class" – many of them are a member of it!
@clarity exactly the real class division is people work for their money Vs people whose money works for them
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@clarity the worst part is they're almost certainly taxed a lot less than the surgeon, possibly to the point where they end up with more money
@apophis yup!
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@clarity Pretty much why I tend to instead say bourgeoisie or capitalist instead of "rich" or worse "1%", even though I feel like that could make some people react badly.
@lanodan "rent-seekers" is a somewhat less poisoned word in the discourse
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@lanodan "rent-seekers" is a somewhat less poisoned word in the discourse
@clarity Yeah but I find that one too reductive, specially as it's not immediately obvious it also includes ones like venture capitalists. -
Your regular reminder that "the rich" aren't people who earn large paychecks. They are people with capital that generates returns: investments, property, company shares. "High income earners" are not an intrinsic enemy of "the working class" – many of them are a member of it!
@clarity they wander amongst us - in this very place
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@clarity they wander amongst us - in this very place
@lritter the number of boosts on this post indicate that mastodon is not beating the "social media for software engineers" allegations
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Your regular reminder that "the rich" aren't people who earn large paychecks. They are people with capital that generates returns: investments, property, company shares. "High income earners" are not an intrinsic enemy of "the working class" – many of them are a member of it!
@clarity If you're not an ownerr or management, you're a worker - but many who "earn high paychecks" sympathize with the management class and aspire to it. That's more of the issue. Of course we can get into the details of small business owners and entrepeneurs vs corporate C Level "workers" but it's the aspiration toward being on top of the shit heap and maintaining it so you might get your turn that causes class conflict even more than simple capitalism and rentseekeing etc themselves.
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a surgeon earning $400k with few investments living paycheck-to-paycheck (very possible if they have a sick parent with high healthcare costs or high childcare prices) has more in common with a food service worker than with Jeff Bezos, but the system is designed to make both workers forget that.
struggling with this one, maybe its a UK-US difference?
The median salary in the UK is about £39k. That's $51k in US money.
British members of parliament get £91k. That's $120k in US money.
$400k is a fortune.
and a food service worker with "a very sick parent with high healthcare costs or high childcare prices" will be in much more s**t than the surgeon.
what am I missing?
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Your regular reminder that "the rich" aren't people who earn large paychecks. They are people with capital that generates returns: investments, property, company shares. "High income earners" are not an intrinsic enemy of "the working class" – many of them are a member of it!
@clarity true!
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Your regular reminder that "the rich" aren't people who earn large paychecks. They are people with capital that generates returns: investments, property, company shares. "High income earners" are not an intrinsic enemy of "the working class" – many of them are a member of it!
@clarity NBA players and Hollywood actors, producers and directors are all unionized
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struggling with this one, maybe its a UK-US difference?
The median salary in the UK is about £39k. That's $51k in US money.
British members of parliament get £91k. That's $120k in US money.
$400k is a fortune.
and a food service worker with "a very sick parent with high healthcare costs or high childcare prices" will be in much more s**t than the surgeon.
what am I missing?
@charlesdelavalleepoussin @clarity
$400k is a lot but someone who gets it through their work is a worker.
Someone who gets that much money through investments and assets is not.
The note about a sick family member feels like a bit of a red herring there although that could damage even that big of a salary.
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Your regular reminder that "the rich" aren't people who earn large paychecks. They are people with capital that generates returns: investments, property, company shares. "High income earners" are not an intrinsic enemy of "the working class" – many of them are a member of it!
@clarity Property rights exist because that is were the Epstein-billionaires make their money. Wage rights don't exist because that is where peasants earn their bread
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@charlesdelavalleepoussin @clarity
$400k is a lot but someone who gets it through their work is a worker.
Someone who gets that much money through investments and assets is not.
The note about a sick family member feels like a bit of a red herring there although that could damage even that big of a salary.
The minimum salary in the UK is £22k for a full-time job. That's £29k.
So a surgeon work's 13x as hard as a service worker on minimum wage?
I see the point being made that workers are workers, but I think this is flawed. There's being paid for work and then there's being paid (wink wink) for work.
The idea of ensuring the difference between the highest paid and lowest paid in any organisation must not be more than 5x is an excellent idea. I think the UK Greens might do it
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The minimum salary in the UK is £22k for a full-time job. That's £29k.
So a surgeon work's 13x as hard as a service worker on minimum wage?
I see the point being made that workers are workers, but I think this is flawed. There's being paid for work and then there's being paid (wink wink) for work.
The idea of ensuring the difference between the highest paid and lowest paid in any organisation must not be more than 5x is an excellent idea. I think the UK Greens might do it
@charlesdelavalleepoussin I would suggest that the way to think of it is how they pay back into society.
That surgeon pays income taxes on their earnings (at least here in the US).
But those with investment capital find ways around it. They claim operation losses and so on to reduce taxes, even as they use the investment's value as collateral for bank loans.
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struggling with this one, maybe its a UK-US difference?
The median salary in the UK is about £39k. That's $51k in US money.
British members of parliament get £91k. That's $120k in US money.
$400k is a fortune.
and a food service worker with "a very sick parent with high healthcare costs or high childcare prices" will be in much more s**t than the surgeon.
what am I missing?
It's that focusing on the quantitative can gloss over the structural. People who earn a high salary do so from working, for someone else, who owns their labor. That is, capitalists.
Capitalists make their money from owning things, not from working.
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@clarity Pretty much why I tend to instead say bourgeoisie or capitalist instead of "rich" or worse "1%", even though I feel like that could make some people react badly.
@lanodan @clarity “Predatory capitalists” may be a redundant phrase, but for those temporarily embarrassed millionaires, it may provide enough mental room to oppose their actions instead of rejecting the message entirely, while still describing the actions that they take and not their monetary worth.
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struggling with this one, maybe its a UK-US difference?
The median salary in the UK is about £39k. That's $51k in US money.
British members of parliament get £91k. That's $120k in US money.
$400k is a fortune.
and a food service worker with "a very sick parent with high healthcare costs or high childcare prices" will be in much more s**t than the surgeon.
what am I missing?
@charlesdelavalleepoussin per this article https://yourbrainonmoney.substack.com/p/i-make-good-money-why-do-i-still
"41% of households earning $300K to $500K are living paycheck to paycheck."
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@charlesdelavalleepoussin per this article https://yourbrainonmoney.substack.com/p/i-make-good-money-why-do-i-still
"41% of households earning $300K to $500K are living paycheck to paycheck."
@charlesdelavalleepoussin an important thing here is that, in many of these high-earning industries, you will be pushed out of your career by complex social factors if you don't demonstrate that you "fit" the culture, and demonstrating that fit is -expensive-. It's an induced demand phenomenon: spend grows to meet available income and you'll be treated as a pity case (and denied promotions/opportunities) if you're leaving below those expected means.
