@meganL asks:
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@meganL asks:
Was reading on new e-cycle classifications in Massachusetts and it occurred to me that cycles probably have more trouble crossing borders than motor vehicles (cars, trucks, vans) do.
There are differences in regulations on motor vehicle equipment between US states and between nations, but I get the impression that they're more inflexible with cycles than cars. But perhaps I'm biased on this.
Q7. What do y'all think?
@ascentale @meganL @bikenite A7) I look forward to finding out one day. #BikeNite
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@ascentale @meganL @bikenite A7. The e motos are dangerous but nothing compared to private vehicles and the user is probably most likely to be injured instead of innocent bystanders. I'd prefer we focus on restricting private vehicles more first. #bikenite
@andrew773 @ascentale @meganL @bikenite
That is true and obvious in general. The issue here is on multiuse paths and bicycle infrastructure where cars are already not allowed. I've encountered emotos on multiuse paths going 35 mph or faster, a speed very likely to kill another path user. We're trying to get those off of the bike and pedestrian infrastructure. -
@andrew773 @ascentale @meganL @bikenite
That is true and obvious in general. The issue here is on multiuse paths and bicycle infrastructure where cars are already not allowed. I've encountered emotos on multiuse paths going 35 mph or faster, a speed very likely to kill another path user. We're trying to get those off of the bike and pedestrian infrastructure.@andrew773 @ascentale @meganL@mas.to @bikenite
This is just one example:
Saw a guy on an e-moto driving in traffic, no lights, no plates. Pulls into a left turn lane at a red light. Waits for traffic going in the opposite direction to pass. Turns on the red, which had a signal. Then drives onto the _sidewalk_ for some damn reason, going at least 25mph.I hate the damn things. Not as much as those electric scooters you can rent. Those end up thrown in the rivers here. But it's close.
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@andrew773 @ascentale @meganL@mas.to @bikenite
This is just one example:
Saw a guy on an e-moto driving in traffic, no lights, no plates. Pulls into a left turn lane at a red light. Waits for traffic going in the opposite direction to pass. Turns on the red, which had a signal. Then drives onto the _sidewalk_ for some damn reason, going at least 25mph.I hate the damn things. Not as much as those electric scooters you can rent. Those end up thrown in the rivers here. But it's close.
@andrew773 @ascentale @bikenite
Just one more example. There's a group of 5 or 6 teenage kids probably just under 16 who all must have got emotos around the same time in the neighborhood by our apartment complex. Rich parents, judging from clothing and safety gear. They've been going around acting like a gang. Getting up to all kinds of destructive shit. They zip off as soon as they're caught in the act. Waiting for them to level up to theft.
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@andrew773 @ascentale @meganL@mas.to @bikenite
This is just one example:
Saw a guy on an e-moto driving in traffic, no lights, no plates. Pulls into a left turn lane at a red light. Waits for traffic going in the opposite direction to pass. Turns on the red, which had a signal. Then drives onto the _sidewalk_ for some damn reason, going at least 25mph.I hate the damn things. Not as much as those electric scooters you can rent. Those end up thrown in the rivers here. But it's close.
@wolfinpdx @andrew773 @ascentale @bikenite
#BikeNite
I hate those things too, but not as much as I hate cars/trucks.
For every one time I've seen an emoto rider doing something stupid and unsafe, I've seen a hundred car/truck drivers doing something stupid and unsafe. On Thursday alone I must have witnessed a dozen drivers execute a "right turn on red" without even slowing down. Whatever happened to "come to a full stop, yield the right of way and proceed with caution?" -
@wolfinpdx @andrew773 @ascentale @bikenite
#BikeNite
I hate those things too, but not as much as I hate cars/trucks.
For every one time I've seen an emoto rider doing something stupid and unsafe, I've seen a hundred car/truck drivers doing something stupid and unsafe. On Thursday alone I must have witnessed a dozen drivers execute a "right turn on red" without even slowing down. Whatever happened to "come to a full stop, yield the right of way and proceed with caution?"@andrew773 @ascentale @bikenite
I'm not saying that people who drive cars and trucks and other four wheeled vehicles aren't guilty of bad driving. Hell, I see people riding non-electric bikes doing dumb shit on the roads too.
What makes these emotos stand out to me is that they don't have plates, don't have lights, and aren't regulated it seems. They're quiet and fast. It makes them dangerous. Especially on pedestrian infrastructure. Like in a shopping plaza full of people.
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@ascentale @meganL @bikenite #BikeNite A7. While there may be some differences in motor vehicle equipment by state, most of these also fall under the Full Faith and Credit clause of the US Constitution. That being said, differing state regulations is why the Federal Department of Transportation and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration exist, in the first place, to provide an overarching legal authority which pre-empts or supercedes state regulations.
@gcvsa @ascentale @meganL @bikenite *other countries are available.
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@gcvsa @ascentale @meganL @bikenite *other countries are available.
@lopta @ascentale @meganL @bikenite Yes, but the orginal question used the term "borders" specifically in reference to the several states of the United States.
International border crossings are quite different.
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@meganL asks:
Was reading on new e-cycle classifications in Massachusetts and it occurred to me that cycles probably have more trouble crossing borders than motor vehicles (cars, trucks, vans) do.
There are differences in regulations on motor vehicle equipment between US states and between nations, but I get the impression that they're more inflexible with cycles than cars. But perhaps I'm biased on this.
Q7. What do y'all think?
@ascentale @meganL @bikenite A7. Probably not too inflexible with bikes since no cop can seem to tell the difference between an e-bike and a bike frame with a lawn mower engine crudely attached around here.
I do think there needs to be some at least loosely agreed upon peak power limits to be classified as an e-bike, based on weight to a degree, that cuts off for regular bikes in the 250-500W range. No need to have more power AND less skill than the pros.
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@andrew773 @ascentale @bikenite
I'm not saying that people who drive cars and trucks and other four wheeled vehicles aren't guilty of bad driving. Hell, I see people riding non-electric bikes doing dumb shit on the roads too.
What makes these emotos stand out to me is that they don't have plates, don't have lights, and aren't regulated it seems. They're quiet and fast. It makes them dangerous. Especially on pedestrian infrastructure. Like in a shopping plaza full of people.
@wolfinpdx @MartyCormack @ascentale @bikenite More regulation will slow their adoption and honestly I prefer e motos to more cars. I find belligerent reckless distracted operation of motor vehicles basically endemic in the United States with LE contributing to the problem more than enforcing it. Private vehicles make it onto multi use trails all the time where I am. A small city of people are killed by cars every year just in the US and almost no one by e moto.
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@ascentale @meganL @bikenite A7. Probably not too inflexible with bikes since no cop can seem to tell the difference between an e-bike and a bike frame with a lawn mower engine crudely attached around here.
I do think there needs to be some at least loosely agreed upon peak power limits to be classified as an e-bike, based on weight to a degree, that cuts off for regular bikes in the 250-500W range. No need to have more power AND less skill than the pros.
@ascentale @meganL @bikenite Ultimately I think the only workable solution is regulating at point of import and point of sale, since there's no obvious way to regulate on the street. Stiff fines and risk of closure/jail for mislabeling or selling to someone unqualified, e.g. with a moto license, and similar for being caught riding one unqualified (by doing something else that's dangerous). Of course, ebikes at appropriate wattage should be regulated akin to regular bikes & batteries.
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@wolfinpdx @MartyCormack @ascentale @bikenite More regulation will slow their adoption and honestly I prefer e motos to more cars. I find belligerent reckless distracted operation of motor vehicles basically endemic in the United States with LE contributing to the problem more than enforcing it. Private vehicles make it onto multi use trails all the time where I am. A small city of people are killed by cars every year just in the US and almost no one by e moto.
@andrew773 @wolfinpdx @ascentale @bikenite
#BikeNite
I too would prefer emotos to cars ON THE STREET. But I disagree about regulation. I used to own a Honda Metropolitan, a motor scooter similar to a Vespa, topped out at 35 mph. Regulations required it to have lights, signals, license plate, insurance and required me to have a motorcycle endorsement on my drivers license. So why wouldn't emotos, some that can go even faster, not follow the same requirements to be street worthy? -
@ascentale@sfba.social @meganL@mas.to @bikenite@fedigroups.social A7: This isn't really answering your question, but I think the biggest issue—at least in the US—is that a lot of manufacturers sell devices that are compliant with the e-bike regulations but easily modifiable to exceed the legal assisted speed limit. Washington State just enacted a law that specifically excludes such e-bikes. How it's going to be enforced remains to be seen. #BikeNite
@daihard @ascentale @bikenite Yes, I have heard of this being an issue in the UK as well. Saw an investigative report where they talked to a guy who modded ebikes to be used in drive-by muggings.
I think we have to come up with things that target those who are being unsafe instead of doing blanket stuff that hurts those who are operating things safely. I think it needs to be a community conversation how best to do that. #BikeNite
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@ascentale @meganL @bikenite
[answering a question re: the difference in difficulty in moving a car/truck/van across borders vs a bike]we imported two ebikes and a car in to Canada when we moved from the US as new permanent residents a couple years ago. At least in terms of import (not just crossing for a visit and then returning), the car was *by far* more complicated. The bikes appeared on the list of stuff we were bringing and rode in the truck. That’s it, really.
The car needed a clean title (no outstanding loans), to be cleared of any recalls (by either having none or having the recall situation remedied), a special import number we had to pay some third party logistics company to get, which we needed to send to the border crossing customs office no less than 72 hours ahead of time, and to have special paperwork done on the US side as well as the Canadian. For the US side we parked on the shoulder of the bridge approach and went in an unmarked door of a nondescript building where we waited in a blank hallway with a bunch of truckers for a long time, hoping but unable to strictly confirm we were in the right place. Once in Canada we needed a safety inspection certificate from Canadian Tire, then new Canadian drivers’ licenses so we could get Canadian car insurance in order to get a new title and complete the import process. The safety inspection cost a couple hundred bucks, and required $800 or so in repairs, some that were maintenance that was probably due, and others that were to meet Canadian requirements, like modifying the running lights standard operation.We can use the same kid seats on our bikes as before, but we are legally required to have car seats in the car that carry the Canadian safety seal, which our US purchased seat did not.
We did get new CAN insurance for our bikes, but most people skip it.
The biggest challenge with moving ebikes cross border is getting them there - no commercial carrier is going to take your already-owned ebike battery on a plane or even a boat. Canada-US is driveable and share the same electric outlets; if you could get a US ebike to Europe somehow with its battery, it’d be very iffy on how to bridge the plug to outlet.
@cassey @ascentale @bikenite Yeah, Canada seems very tough that way. I wonder how it compares to other countries?
I wanted to drive my accessible van to Canada and leave it with my friend, but it turned out that would be treated as "importing" it like a dealer and they don't even let you do that if the car is old but not a "classic". #BikeTooter
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@ascentale @meganL @bikenite Ultimately I think the only workable solution is regulating at point of import and point of sale, since there's no obvious way to regulate on the street. Stiff fines and risk of closure/jail for mislabeling or selling to someone unqualified, e.g. with a moto license, and similar for being caught riding one unqualified (by doing something else that's dangerous). Of course, ebikes at appropriate wattage should be regulated akin to regular bikes & batteries.
@edd @ascentale @bikenite I look forward to community discussion among various advocacy groups to come up with bettery categories for regulation (wattage is not the only factor in speed and a heavier rider needs more wattage to do hills, for instance), but I agree that a lot of what people are endangered by aren't actually e-bikes but e-motorcycles.
Amazon stops illegal e-bike sales in California following KCRA 3 Investigates request
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUGDSV7vSS4 #Ebike #Regulation #BikeNite
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@edd @ascentale @bikenite I look forward to community discussion among various advocacy groups to come up with bettery categories for regulation (wattage is not the only factor in speed and a heavier rider needs more wattage to do hills, for instance), but I agree that a lot of what people are endangered by aren't actually e-bikes but e-motorcycles.
Amazon stops illegal e-bike sales in California following KCRA 3 Investigates request
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUGDSV7vSS4 #Ebike #Regulation #BikeNite
@edd @ascentale @bikenite I think there needs to be a lot more community discussion about definitions and best practices for accessible but safe regulations.
Even our terms need updating "motor vehicle" means car, but e-bikes and e-scooters have motors. EV stands for "electric vehicle" but e-bikes are unquestionably electric and vehicles. We need to catch up with the state of tech in our language, classifications, and infrastructure. And organize to fight blanket bans on e-bikes. #BikeNite
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@daihard @ascentale @bikenite Yes, I have heard of this being an issue in the UK as well. Saw an investigative report where they talked to a guy who modded ebikes to be used in drive-by muggings.
I think we have to come up with things that target those who are being unsafe instead of doing blanket stuff that hurts those who are operating things safely. I think it needs to be a community conversation how best to do that. #BikeNite
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@edd @ascentale @bikenite I think there needs to be a lot more community discussion about definitions and best practices for accessible but safe regulations.
Even our terms need updating "motor vehicle" means car, but e-bikes and e-scooters have motors. EV stands for "electric vehicle" but e-bikes are unquestionably electric and vehicles. We need to catch up with the state of tech in our language, classifications, and infrastructure. And organize to fight blanket bans on e-bikes. #BikeNite
@meganL @edd @ascentale @bikenite A7. I agree with Megan about the complexity here. Power based regs will really kneecap cargo bikes as car replacements. You need that power to make utility bikes practical.
I’m not sure there’s a viable way to legislate this situation without net negative tradeoffs. I think we have to solve it socially.
Buying better infrastructure would make a big difference. #BikeNite
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@edd @ascentale @bikenite I think there needs to be a lot more community discussion about definitions and best practices for accessible but safe regulations.
Even our terms need updating "motor vehicle" means car, but e-bikes and e-scooters have motors. EV stands for "electric vehicle" but e-bikes are unquestionably electric and vehicles. We need to catch up with the state of tech in our language, classifications, and infrastructure. And organize to fight blanket bans on e-bikes. #BikeNite
@edd @ascentale @bikenite Speaking of this subject, Californians need to act.
Megan Lynch (she/her) (@meganL@mas.to)
Californians who cycle: the State Assembly is reacting to panic by trying to pass a bill that will punish legal and safe e-bike riders for the excesses of those riding e-motorcycles. SFA has an email-writing campaign to send to your CA State senator and assemblyperson, but only 596 people so far have used it. WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT! Please either use the tool or use the talking points to phone your reps on this matter! Link in the blog: https://bikinginla.com/2026/05/12/driver-asleep-at-the-wheel-in-mass-bike-crash-criticizing-criticism-of-criticizing-reporters-and-quitting-bicycling-because-of-bike-rage/ #BikeTooter #California
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