Your infrequent reminder that I spent twenty minutes dead a few years ago, and without constant CPR and a correctly-used defibrillator when paramedics arrived I would still be dead.
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I know there are technical definitions of "dead" and "alive" that might not quite be the same as the ones I'm using here, but that shit only matters to the doctors who would pronounce time of death anyway
@digitalraven I would absolutely rather the effort and a couple of broken ribs than someone not bother and y'know...be dead.
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The dumbest take I've ever heard is "but what if I harm them further while doing CPR?"
A person who needs CPR is functionally dead. If they come back to life, a couple of broken ribs is a small price to pay.
@digitalraven Most sensible places you can't be charged with anything for attempting to save someone's life in any case. In fact, in some places, *not* helping can get you charged
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Yeah, but it is best to check carefully that they don't have a pulse before doing CPR.
(Someone recently told me how her brother had been seriously injured after he had only fainted.)
@regordane @digitalraven Somebody knew enough to do CPR but not enough to check for a pulse? Yikes
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Yeah, but it is best to check carefully that they don't have a pulse before doing CPR.
(Someone recently told me how her brother had been seriously injured after he had only fainted.)
@regordane Definitely! I've done CPR training every few years since I was a teenager, and you should never start it without doing basic checks.
Every CPR course I've done, the first thing that's covered is checking responsiveness (to voice and pain) and whether the person is breathing. It's easier to check that than to find a pulse, and if they're not breathing, the blood may be flowing but there's less and less oxygen.
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The dumbest take I've ever heard is "but what if I harm them further while doing CPR?"
A person who needs CPR is functionally dead. If they come back to life, a couple of broken ribs is a small price to pay.
@digitalraven @cstross It’s a common enough take that we were taught about it explicitly on my last first aid course. Not just about CPR but the entire ABCDE hierarchy. In particular, protecting breathing is more important than protecting (against) damage.
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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Yeah, but it is best to check carefully that they don't have a pulse before doing CPR.
(Someone recently told me how her brother had been seriously injured after he had only fainted.)
@regordane @digitalraven With respect, that’s the right idea but not the current advice. Pulse checks can be unreliable. Instead, you should check for breathing. Someone who has fainted will still be breathing and should be put into the recovery / airway protection position. If they are unconscious and not breathing, start CPR and do not stop.
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The dumbest take I've ever heard is "but what if I harm them further while doing CPR?"
A person who needs CPR is functionally dead. If they come back to life, a couple of broken ribs is a small price to pay.
My CPR instructor said they are not breathing, and they have no heartbeat. If you do nothing, they're dead. Do something.
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I know there are technical definitions of "dead" and "alive" that might not quite be the same as the ones I'm using here, but that shit only matters to the doctors who would pronounce time of death anyway
On my first aid course, we were told that we were not doctors, we wouldn't be doctors if we passed this course, and only doctors could certify death.
We would not be qualified to certify death even in cases of incineration, decapitation, or partial decomposition.
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@digitalraven @regordane - In the years I've been teaching BSL, the basics stay the same (DR ABC - check for/remove from DANGER, check RESPONSE (Alert, Responds to voice, Reponds to pain, or Unresponsive) - IF unresponsive check AIRWAY, check for BREATHING and CIRCULATION - then GET HELP and finally start rescue breathing and chest compressions IF there is no normal breathing or circulation. The details have changed several times with research. mainly from https://www.resus.org.uk/ in the UK.
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Your infrequent reminder that I spent twenty minutes dead a few years ago, and without constant CPR and a correctly-used defibrillator when paramedics arrived I would still be dead.
LEARN CPR. LEARN TO USE A DEFIBRILLATOR.
@digitalraven Yes, 100% agree, should be taught in school and every workplace! Not sure where you live, but in the UK, emergency defibrillators are increasingly common in public buildings/village halls/old phone boxes/anywhere
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The dumbest take I've ever heard is "but what if I harm them further while doing CPR?"
A person who needs CPR is functionally dead. If they come back to life, a couple of broken ribs is a small price to pay.
@digitalraven I was in a gigantic and disgusting thread on IG a while back - a Met police whistleblower posted about the need for better CPR training so men don't avoid trying to save women because... Boobs.
Honestly the amount of 'you can just fking die I'm not touching you, you'll accuse me and ruin my life' comments was utterly overwhelming and sickening.
Men seriously out there admitting they'd rather let women die than stop sexualising us.
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@regordane @digitalraven Somebody knew enough to do CPR but not enough to check for a pulse? Yikes
@rpluim @regordane @digitalraven
A friend of mine, who was a qualified nurse, was astonished when I told her something I'd learned on my first aid/CPR course.
You know how brain death starts about four minutes after breathing stops?
That four minutes doesn't start until you stop CPR.
As long as you're doing CPR, you're doing their breathing for them.
So don't stop after four minutes.
They might not be dead yet.
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The dumbest take I've ever heard is "but what if I harm them further while doing CPR?"
A person who needs CPR is functionally dead. If they come back to life, a couple of broken ribs is a small price to pay.
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@digitalraven Yes, 100% agree, should be taught in school and every workplace! Not sure where you live, but in the UK, emergency defibrillators are increasingly common in public buildings/village halls/old phone boxes/anywhere
@1a1nC I'm in Scotland. I was at my partner's flat when it happened, so no defibrillator close but the amount that are available in public spaces is encouraging
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@digitalraven I was in a gigantic and disgusting thread on IG a while back - a Met police whistleblower posted about the need for better CPR training so men don't avoid trying to save women because... Boobs.
Honestly the amount of 'you can just fking die I'm not touching you, you'll accuse me and ruin my life' comments was utterly overwhelming and sickening.
Men seriously out there admitting they'd rather let women die than stop sexualising us.
@noodlemaz That sickens me to my core.
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@regordane @digitalraven With respect, that’s the right idea but not the current advice. Pulse checks can be unreliable. Instead, you should check for breathing. Someone who has fainted will still be breathing and should be put into the recovery / airway protection position. If they are unconscious and not breathing, start CPR and do not stop.
@m0rpk @regordane @digitalraven
I second that. I have hypo-tension - my BP is usually under 100. And I was an Emergency Medical Technician. In training, we would check each other's pulse and BP. Everyone hated checking me because I was terrible to get a reliable read on.
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R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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@noodlemaz That sickens me to my core.
@digitalraven Me too. @noodlemaz
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On my first aid course, we were told that we were not doctors, we wouldn't be doctors if we passed this course, and only doctors could certify death.
We would not be qualified to certify death even in cases of incineration, decapitation, or partial decomposition.
@davidtheeviloverlord @digitalraven Years ago there was one of those “fly-on-the-wall” TV programs following the workers on a UK railway. They had a case of a “person on the tracks”, i.e., suicide, with a black comic moment where the station manager was calling for a doctor to certify death and one of the workers is saying “but his head's come off”.
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The dumbest take I've ever heard is "but what if I harm them further while doing CPR?"
A person who needs CPR is functionally dead. If they come back to life, a couple of broken ribs is a small price to pay.
Exactly what my instructor always told us !!!
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Yeah, but it is best to check carefully that they don't have a pulse before doing CPR.
(Someone recently told me how her brother had been seriously injured after he had only fainted.)
@regordane @digitalraven THIS is what frightens me. When I'm stressed my ability to check for a pulse is reduced. The defib at least can be sure... but it takes time to go get it.
@digitalraven I'm so very glad you blew through the odds and survived. And that you were surrounded by people capable.
