I woke up still pondering @girlonthenet's lamentation (I think; https://mastodon.social/@girlonthenet/116353766078817354), that while lots of people enjoy her sex blog, few people boost her toots about it.
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@neil
Agreed but a vast majority of modern kink, as I see it on a popular social network specifically devoted to it* is well beyond breaking English and Welsh law. No matter how many roses you stick on the bed
*No names because they're ignoring the OSA, aren't doing anything about it and I'm surprised they haven't come up on OfCom's radar yet.
@alexisbushnell @joykill@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill
Sure - as I say, it will depend entirely on what it is. Plus, some communities tend towards some kinks more than others, so what you see in one place may be not be a representative sample.
Whether this is "most" or not though is, I guess, beside the point, as it seems that we all agree that there are commonly enjoyed activities which might be hard, in law, to defend.
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@neil @alexisbushnell @joykill I was under the impression it was generally fine until you cause harm to another party. Which - AIUI (IANAL) - is a pretty old legal principle which runs the gamut from "assault" up to "murder".
Sidequest topic, I think we'd be better teaching people how to do the harder "will fuck you up" stuff safely (or at least more safely) if they insist on doing it. Because it beats them being dead.
@philpem @alexisbushnell @joykill
It is indeed a challenging, and politically and socially motivated, grey area.
(I find it difficult to read Brown, for instance, as anything other than homophobic.)
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@neil @girlonthenet I'm actually mistaken. The articles are accessible, the audio isn't. I think I had it in my head the articles were self blocked as well. I'll read some when I can~ and if I like any, i'll share em~
@OliviaVespera @neil thanks, much appreciated
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@philpem @alexisbushnell @joykill
It is indeed a challenging, and politically and socially motivated, grey area.
(I find it difficult to read Brown, for instance, as anything other than homophobic.)
@philpem @alexisbushnell @joykill
One also sees the "but they cannot have consented to that" deployed broadly by activists too, generally in the context of seeking control over other people's lives and behaviours, ignoring the fact that many people do, in reality, consent to such things.
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@neil @alexisbushnell @joykill I was under the impression it was generally fine until you cause harm to another party. Which - AIUI (IANAL) - is a pretty old legal principle which runs the gamut from "assault" up to "murder".
Sidequest topic, I think we'd be better teaching people how to do the harder "will fuck you up" stuff safely (or at least more safely) if they insist on doing it. Because it beats them being dead.
@philpem @neil @joykill totally agree that teaching people how to do risky things they want to do in a safer manner and encouraging personal responsibility is the way forward.
Sadly, especially when it comes to sex (kink isn't sex but that's a different discussion) that isn't where the government land.
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@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill
Sure - as I say, it will depend entirely on what it is. Plus, some communities tend towards some kinks more than others, so what you see in one place may be not be a representative sample.
Whether this is "most" or not though is, I guess, beside the point, as it seems that we all agree that there are commonly enjoyed activities which might be hard, in law, to defend.
@neil
Obviously anything involving violence against the person isn't legal whether there's consent or not, no matter whether it's a quick titty slap or a full on flogging.
I've always wondered where the line is when it comes to bondage and false imprisonment.
I can appreciate that the authorities may not want to tackle the whole thing. Some BDSM relationships can be fulfilling and wholesome, some made of coercion and abuse.
Bias note: Check my profile. I am not really a kinkster but I do own a fucking load of handcuffs. Occasionally they may be used in non law enforcement scenarios.
@alexisbushnell @joykill -
@neil
Obviously anything involving violence against the person isn't legal whether there's consent or not, no matter whether it's a quick titty slap or a full on flogging.
I've always wondered where the line is when it comes to bondage and false imprisonment.
I can appreciate that the authorities may not want to tackle the whole thing. Some BDSM relationships can be fulfilling and wholesome, some made of coercion and abuse.
Bias note: Check my profile. I am not really a kinkster but I do own a fucking load of handcuffs. Occasionally they may be used in non law enforcement scenarios.
@alexisbushnell @joykill@jamesb @neil @joykill I believe there is (or was...) some legislation working its way through the US courts to enshrine consent as a legal defence into law somehow.
I realise it's a sticky area (DV victim in a kink relationship and also very kinky human) but surely we can do better than what we have!
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@jamesb @neil @joykill I believe there is (or was...) some legislation working its way through the US courts to enshrine consent as a legal defence into law somehow.
I realise it's a sticky area (DV victim in a kink relationship and also very kinky human) but surely we can do better than what we have!
@alexisbushnell @jamesb @joykill
> I realise it's a sticky area
The question, legally, is what made it so sticky. That has a strong bearing on the likelihood of the commission of an offence or not...
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@neil
Obviously anything involving violence against the person isn't legal whether there's consent or not, no matter whether it's a quick titty slap or a full on flogging.
I've always wondered where the line is when it comes to bondage and false imprisonment.
I can appreciate that the authorities may not want to tackle the whole thing. Some BDSM relationships can be fulfilling and wholesome, some made of coercion and abuse.
Bias note: Check my profile. I am not really a kinkster but I do own a fucking load of handcuffs. Occasionally they may be used in non law enforcement scenarios.
@alexisbushnell @joykill@neil
I feel the need to rephase the last bit. I enjoy collecting handcuffs. It started when I was a kid and didn't know what kink was. I have a kink for certain things but I do not practice any of it due to life circumstances but I retain the interest and will fight for people's rights to practice it if they're willing and it's consensual.
@alexisbushnell @joykill -
@neil
I feel the need to rephase the last bit. I enjoy collecting handcuffs. It started when I was a kid and didn't know what kink was. I have a kink for certain things but I do not practice any of it due to life circumstances but I retain the interest and will fight for people's rights to practice it if they're willing and it's consensual.
@alexisbushnell @joykill@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill FWIW, you didn't come across oppressively anyway!
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@jamesb @neil @joykill I believe there is (or was...) some legislation working its way through the US courts to enshrine consent as a legal defence into law somehow.
I realise it's a sticky area (DV victim in a kink relationship and also very kinky human) but surely we can do better than what we have!
@alexisbushnell
It's definitely a hard one to deal with because a DV victim could definitely be coerced into saying things were consensual.
I think the laws need reforming but I cannot say how it could be done.
If I were a lawyer I wouldn't want to touch this one with a barge pole.
@neil @joykill -
@philpem @neil @joykill totally agree that teaching people how to do risky things they want to do in a safer manner and encouraging personal responsibility is the way forward.
Sadly, especially when it comes to sex (kink isn't sex but that's a different discussion) that isn't where the government land.
@alexisbushnell @neil @joykill The thought had crossed my mind that a lot of this legislation probably comes from people who have control-freak tendencies, or who are vaguely not-100%-straight and can't deal with it so externalise it. If true, it'd explain a lot.
Shame we're such a repressed society. You'd think we'd have learned by now from how various drugs issues have been handled. -
@alexisbushnell
It's definitely a hard one to deal with because a DV victim could definitely be coerced into saying things were consensual.
I think the laws need reforming but I cannot say how it could be done.
If I were a lawyer I wouldn't want to touch this one with a barge pole.
@neil @joykill@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill
Touching people with bargepoles is fine if done consensually and gently.
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@alexisbushnell
It's definitely a hard one to deal with because a DV victim could definitely be coerced into saying things were consensual.
I think the laws need reforming but I cannot say how it could be done.
If I were a lawyer I wouldn't want to touch this one with a barge pole.
@neil @joykill -
@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill FWIW, you didn't come across oppressively anyway!
@neil
*sigh*
Let me try again, I'll just go and step into something a bit more... uncomfortable.
@alexisbushnell @joykill -
@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill
Touching people with bargepoles is fine if done consensually and gently.
@neil
As long as it doesn't cause "disfigurement, mutilation, or serious harm, particularly in a non-consensual or sexualized context".
@alexisbushnell @joykill -
@alexisbushnell @jamesb @joykill
Law degree ftw
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@neil
As long as it doesn't cause "disfigurement, mutilation, or serious harm, particularly in a non-consensual or sexualized context".
@alexisbushnell @joykill -
@alexisbushnell
I see stuff like that in my "site" timeline quite often. It's obvious that everyone involved enjoyed it but I'm still breaking the law seeing the photos even though I didn't actively go and search for it. It's definitely not my kink but I have no problem with people doing it.
@neil @joykill -
Hmm... I wonder (I told you that I was pondering!) if there is an added factor here, of the fedi demographic: of older people, perhaps especially men (don't laugh), being self-aware of engaging with younger adults posting sex-related stuff, and coming across as creepy. Perhaps?
@neil I think this could easily play a role.
My body tends to be read as femme by people who only see porn of me, but I'm very aware of my middle aged, masculine/perceived male status, communication style, and demeanour when interacting with women in general and people younger than me specifically.
My solution is to be cautious about initiating interaction and to operate a strike policy, where if I overstep or behave inappropriately with someone, I apologise then cease interaction, as it would agonise me to make someone feel threatened or uncomfortable just because I'm bad at navigating parasocial or interpersonal stuff.
That means that I chat with people in those groups less than I might otherwise, which reduces the network effect and functionally means that I see less of them to boost, even when we're both on lewd/sex work fedi.
More generally speaking, I've definitely noticed, as you mention earlier in this thread, that people tend to like/boost/comment on lewd posts (especially images) less than on non-lewd ones.
I've also found that softcore/cheesecake pics get more interaction than hard kink/highly explicit images. (I have also observed patterns about gender presentation but that's a bit of a deep dive.)
Written posts seem less susceptible, but my erotic writing nonetheless mostly goes less viral than my Stong Opinions About Social Justice, for example.
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