Even though I am generally interested in science and technology, I have found it impossible to get excited about Artemis II.
-
@mekkaokereke @cyberlyra @davidnjoku
Two things can be possible at the same time. Planning and timing of the Artemis II mission was set (even with setbacks/hiccups) well before the Orange
's regime. Cheer the progress for humanity, the science, teamwork, etc. NASA is as much a punching bag and pawn of the current administration as all of the other science-based agencies for which we lament the devastation foisted on them.
https://mastodon.online/@piquant00/116341655002272867 v @piquant00@RunRichRun @cyberlyra @davidnjoku @piquant00
You've either completely missed, or completely ignored, the point of my post.
I'll say it much more bluntly, to let you react to it:
It's not "cheering for humanity" if you only cheer when Europeans or Americans do it. Instead it's a weird kind of nationalism or eurocentrism that is the opposite of what Star Trek is supposedly selling.
And it's super obvious to non-white observers how we "cheer for humanity" when Elon or NASA does something spacey, but to not even talk about it when China or India do something.
India has also landed a probe on the moon, and India has sent a probe to Mars orbit. India is the first nation to successfully enter Mars orbit on the first try. And their mission control and science and engineering teams are a lot more gender balanced than most places.
I'm saying that we should "celebrate humanity's space achievements" when they do stuff too, but I don't see that happening.
This isn't "Don't cheer for NASA." I cheer for NASA!
This is "Don't try to sell me that US space race fever, is a win for humanity, because it's not."
It's "We can have a Federation of Planets, just as long as Earth is the head of that Federation, and the US is the head of Earth, and Starfleet headquarters is in San Francisco. Anything else is Romulans!
" -
Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku TBF, The Planetary Society is pretty rigorous about cheering space accomplishments no matter whose they are.
-
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku TBF, The Planetary Society is pretty rigorous about cheering space accomplishments no matter whose they are.
Fair.
But do people hear about Elon launches and Artemis from the planetary society? Or from CNN and other mainstream media?
Mekka
-
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku it’s an incredibly jingoistic industry. The “USA! USA!” pride can always be seen under the surface.
On top of that, Congress making it illegal to have bilateral-only cooperation between the US and China makes collaboration and celebration thereof almost impossible.
Icing on the shit cake: ridiculous levels of competition between academics for publication space, multiplied by racism … well there you have it.
In our lifetimes, access to space will always be a fight. No one involved is interested in having it any other way, grand gestures of internationalism notwithstanding.@aizuchi @mekkaokereke @davidnjoku
There were a couple of years where I was the only member of my work group who was allowed to communicate with PRC asteroid researchers directly; because I was then paid by the NSF and did not have the NASA restriction imposed by Frank Wolf when he was in Congress.
So much nonsense because of Wolf's racism and other members of Congress choosing to enable it.
-
Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku I concede the point, although from my perspective I've had my interest in space absolutely shattered by the Expanse-esque competition from the billionaires.
I did watch Tiangong launch, and the first set of astronauts to go up. Kinda wild how the feed gets flagged as "state media" in a way NASA (and perhaps ESA?) doesn't, to your point.
Trying not to "not all Artemis enthusiasts" about this. I definitely am trying to latch onto an accomplishment that feels multi-national and worthwhile, particularly as it would rekindle my life-long love of space. There was a time when I was retweeting the goings on of every fledgling launch provider (I remember watching RocketLab back when it was literally just a cheap web cam pointing at the pad). Just can't these days, Musk has put paid to that.
Not sure I had a overall point sorry, just wanted to provide some context for anyone in the same, ostensibly silent boat as myself.
I saw an article earlier about the potential collapse of the video game industry (possibly on Aftermath), and their point was along the lines of "yeah but that giant free-to-play game in South Korea that you've never heard of doesn't care if Call of Duty sales nosedive". I guess we all have our blind spots to things going on elsewhere.
-
@aizuchi @mekkaokereke @davidnjoku
There were a couple of years where I was the only member of my work group who was allowed to communicate with PRC asteroid researchers directly; because I was then paid by the NSF and did not have the NASA restriction imposed by Frank Wolf when he was in Congress.
So much nonsense because of Wolf's racism and other members of Congress choosing to enable it.
@michael_w_busch @mekkaokereke @davidnjoku yeah. I would hear from the occasional researcher who wanted to work with Chinese scientists, and they would roll their eyes at our stupid system. Everyone was frustrated.
It’s all good data to show what happens when you start out with an oppositional outlook. I only hope someone learns from it. -
Yup:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXHd-KaRhk
And the Chinese space station has working Hall effect ionic impulse engines, similar to how the impulse engines in Star Trek work. So it doesn't just burn rocket fuel and oxygen for propulsion. It also uses a stream of ions.
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku Woah. Thanks for sharing this!
-
Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
Hey that Chinese seedling sprouting on the moon was a neat experiment!
China's Moon mission sees first seeds sprout
The seeds, inside a sealed container, are the first plants ever grown on the Moon's surface.
(www.bbc.com)
-
Please say more?
@mekkaokereke @cyberlyra @davidnjoku I’ve mostly stopped following the YouTubers I used to follow for space news, because I’m similarly disillusioned, but they recognized a lot of foreign accomplishments I wouldn’t otherwise have known were happening. I don’t imagine they’re a representative sample, but some of that crowd is celebrating the Chinese space station, Japanese moon landers, first all-European launch system, and so on
-
Yup:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXHd-KaRhk
And the Chinese space station has working Hall effect ionic impulse engines, similar to how the impulse engines in Star Trek work. So it doesn't just burn rocket fuel and oxygen for propulsion. It also uses a stream of ions.
@mekkaokereke @flowerpot I didn't know about these either! In a STEM class this semester, a learning goal is that many cool things and amazing people are "hidden" in plain sight. So when we talk about Artemis next class, I'm glad I can share with them this info. I do feel these accomplishments are worth celebrating, especially when it can remind humanity that, in systems where differences are magnified, what we have in common is worth appreciating.
-
Yup:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXHd-KaRhk
And the Chinese space station has working Hall effect ionic impulse engines, similar to how the impulse engines in Star Trek work. So it doesn't just burn rocket fuel and oxygen for propulsion. It also uses a stream of ions.
@mekkaokereke @flowerpot @davidnjoku thanks for this link!
-
Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
@mekkaokereke I remember the day (which was not too long ago) when I learned for the first time about a space station in orbit that is not the ISS. Like. What the fuck. How is that one of the most obscure and unknown facts?? Xenophobia. That's why. Star Trek's future is far off out of reach. My worst fear is that we actually need to have a catastrophic WWIII that brings humanity to the brink of extinction for us to realize that we're literally the same fucking species. @davidnjoku
-
Even though I am generally interested in science and technology, I have found it impossible to get excited about Artemis II.
I'm not quite sure. Maybe it's because America isn't exactly my favourite country these days because ... well, you know why. Or maybe it's because, contrary to what I'd always assumed, these things are a lot more jingoistic than I thought. It's not "Mankind is going to the moon", it's "America is beating China to the moon".
@davidnjoku But we have a Canadian on board if it’s any consolation.
Îm from 
-
Even though I am generally interested in science and technology, I have found it impossible to get excited about Artemis II.
I'm not quite sure. Maybe it's because America isn't exactly my favourite country these days because ... well, you know why. Or maybe it's because, contrary to what I'd always assumed, these things are a lot more jingoistic than I thought. It's not "Mankind is going to the moon", it's "America is beating China to the moon".
@davidnjoku
This whole thread makes me wonder what else i am missing.
First it makes me wish to get to know more about *all* different space programs.
If one could provide links to preferable sites with a "wider view" that would be awesome.I blame media for featuring mostly bad/depressing/enraging news for the clicks - and for a way to narrow view provided.
-
Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
-
@Xavier Maybe that's what I'm missing. I've not listened to that, so I'm still thinking of it as something Trump has done, rather than something some hardworking science geeks have achieved.
@davidnjoku @Xavier I had the livestream on in my office and it was enjoyable.
When they came out from behind the moon and Trump called, I thought “that’s a hell of a punishment for coming out from behind the moon” and turned it off.This was something done despite him, he’s been cutting NASA budget. It’s European engines, much more a humanity is doing this kind of thing.
But I absolutely get where you’re coming from.
-
Fair.
But do people hear about Elon launches and Artemis from the planetary society? Or from CNN and other mainstream media?
Mekka
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku I don't say what I say to disagree with your point, which I broadly agree with, friend. I just want to point out that principled exceptions exist.
-
Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
YES! It has been bothering me to see all the hype for dark side of the moon pics with zero references to the Chinese who got the photos years aho
-
YES! It has been bothering me to see all the hype for dark side of the moon pics with zero references to the Chinese who got the photos years aho
@CrankyOtter @mekkaokereke @davidnjoku Got the photos from the GROUND years ago, yes.
-
Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku I totally understand that. There's also the Indian space program landing a lunar rover on the moon's south pole the other year. I do remember hearing about that one more than any of the other Chinese space missions though. The Chandrayaan Programme was also notable for how cheaply they did everything compared to what NASA does.
