The venn diagram of the "spare the rod and spoil the child" people and the "threatening to bomb a country into the stone age is good and moral foreign policy" people is a circle.
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Beating your child is child abuse. But if that doesn't convince you not to do it for some reason (very strange that this wouldn't end the discussion... but OK) it's also NOT EFFECTIVE. It doesn't do what it claims. Other methods of enforcing boundaries are more effective.
Beating your child won't keep them from getting pregnant as a teen or ending up in prison. It won't prove that you love them. It just shows you get angry and can not control that anger. It's bad parenting.
@futurebird it also teaches them that violence is an acceptable response to someone angering you
which like I think most don't want kids to be going around hitting people I dunno
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Beating your child is child abuse. But if that doesn't convince you not to do it for some reason (very strange that this wouldn't end the discussion... but OK) it's also NOT EFFECTIVE. It doesn't do what it claims. Other methods of enforcing boundaries are more effective.
Beating your child won't keep them from getting pregnant as a teen or ending up in prison. It won't prove that you love them. It just shows you get angry and can not control that anger. It's bad parenting.
@futurebird Sweden banned all corporal punishment in 1979, and they have a hotline for children to call if any adult (including a parent) hits them. My child was keenly interested in this information, and shares it with others.
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@futurebird it also teaches them that violence is an acceptable response to someone angering you
which like I think most don't want kids to be going around hitting people I dunno
It teaches that the reason you obey isn't because the person who is in charge has shown they are wise, or because you trust them. No you obey because they might hit you and they are bigger and can hit harder than you can hit back.
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System shared this topic
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The venn diagram of the "spare the rod and spoil the child" people and the "threatening to bomb a country into the stone age is good and moral foreign policy" people is a circle.
It's the same error in the nature of power, in the exercise of control. The same confusion between might and destructive chaos.
@futurebird I used to be in the "Spare the rod" camp, but since I started helping to raise my nephew I realised that even toddlers can be reasoned with and just calming him down and explaining things to him works.
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The venn diagram of the "spare the rod and spoil the child" people and the "threatening to bomb a country into the stone age is good and moral foreign policy" people is a circle.
It's the same error in the nature of power, in the exercise of control. The same confusion between might and destructive chaos.
@futurebird It’s a case of ”because I say so”, and would not be tolerated if the situation was reversed.
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@futurebird Not to mention what are you going to do when one day you find yourself looking up at them…
@ersatzmaus @futurebird They would pretend it never existed. that feeble weirdos do not deserve to live. And sue or find another host to parasitize if they need help someday.
Unfortunately broken instincts can't be fully redressed - I avoid children myself.
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The venn diagram of the "spare the rod and spoil the child" people and the "threatening to bomb a country into the stone age is good and moral foreign policy" people is a circle.
It's the same error in the nature of power, in the exercise of control. The same confusion between might and destructive chaos.
@futurebird You're describing an Euler diagram rather than a Venn diagram. Venn diagrams show possible logical sets, rather than trying to show the relationship between things.
Pedantry aside, both would fit in the circle of people who are the common clay of the nation, morons.
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The venn diagram of the "spare the rod and spoil the child" people and the "threatening to bomb a country into the stone age is good and moral foreign policy" people is a circle.
It's the same error in the nature of power, in the exercise of control. The same confusion between might and destructive chaos.
@futurebird thinking “if I hit this person/bomb this country/terrorize this city they will bend to my will instead of becoming radicalized for revenge” is just a really stupid delusion.
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@futurebird thinking “if I hit this person/bomb this country/terrorize this city they will bend to my will instead of becoming radicalized for revenge” is just a really stupid delusion.
I think it goes beyond a false belief. At this point there is just an incoherent jumble, foamed up with emotional spasms.
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Beating your child is child abuse. But if that doesn't convince you not to do it for some reason (very strange that this wouldn't end the discussion... but OK) it's also NOT EFFECTIVE. It doesn't do what it claims. Other methods of enforcing boundaries are more effective.
Beating your child won't keep them from getting pregnant as a teen or ending up in prison. It won't prove that you love them. It just shows you get angry and can not control that anger. It's bad parenting.
@futurebird I'm gonna argue they *can* control it. Generally these same people do not strike their bosses, coworkers, or junior employees at their job. They choose their targets.
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The venn diagram of the "spare the rod and spoil the child" people and the "threatening to bomb a country into the stone age is good and moral foreign policy" people is a circle.
It's the same error in the nature of power, in the exercise of control. The same confusion between might and destructive chaos.
@futurebird I have come to believe that Orwell was right: The object of power is power.
That the point of abusing another person (or another nation) mostly isn't about changing that person's future behavior. Rather, the point is to demonstrate a power differential (to oneself especially) in an un-fakeable way.
Beating your child is effective in demonstrating that you're (still) bigger and stronger than the child.
Randomly blowing up schoolchildren in Iran is effective in demonstrating that, whatever else might be going on, you're really the one and only Commander In Chief of the US military.
It's ego; it's the will to dominate for the sake of that domination. It's proving to oneself that one is the power-haver, the power-expander, and that others are subservient to, victims of, that power.
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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The venn diagram of the "spare the rod and spoil the child" people and the "threatening to bomb a country into the stone age is good and moral foreign policy" people is a circle.
It's the same error in the nature of power, in the exercise of control. The same confusion between might and destructive chaos.
@futurebird I always felt like "spare the rod and spoil the child" was a commandment, so we did.
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Beating your child is child abuse. But if that doesn't convince you not to do it for some reason (very strange that this wouldn't end the discussion... but OK) it's also NOT EFFECTIVE. It doesn't do what it claims. Other methods of enforcing boundaries are more effective.
Beating your child won't keep them from getting pregnant as a teen or ending up in prison. It won't prove that you love them. It just shows you get angry and can not control that anger. It's bad parenting.
@futurebird
Agreed. And I say this as someone who Social Services had a fat file on because I was covered in bruises since I was a baby. I grew up with no respect for authority figures because my parents and teachers would smack me or emotionally abuse me. Smacking children does not turn them into angels. -
Beating your child is child abuse. But if that doesn't convince you not to do it for some reason (very strange that this wouldn't end the discussion... but OK) it's also NOT EFFECTIVE. It doesn't do what it claims. Other methods of enforcing boundaries are more effective.
Beating your child won't keep them from getting pregnant as a teen or ending up in prison. It won't prove that you love them. It just shows you get angry and can not control that anger. It's bad parenting.
@futurebird that includes spanking. Also indoctrination is child abuse.
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@passenger @futurebird @waitworry
I would argue that beaten children become adults that physically abuse others only if they have parents or guardians that approve and reward that behaviour when they are children. -
Beating your child is child abuse. But if that doesn't convince you not to do it for some reason (very strange that this wouldn't end the discussion... but OK) it's also NOT EFFECTIVE. It doesn't do what it claims. Other methods of enforcing boundaries are more effective.
Beating your child won't keep them from getting pregnant as a teen or ending up in prison. It won't prove that you love them. It just shows you get angry and can not control that anger. It's bad parenting.
@futurebird we need to do more stopping the psychological and mental torment some parents inflict on their kids through verbal abuse too.
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The venn diagram of the "spare the rod and spoil the child" people and the "threatening to bomb a country into the stone age is good and moral foreign policy" people is a circle.
It's the same error in the nature of power, in the exercise of control. The same confusion between might and destructive chaos.
@futurebird wait this explains a lot about the political views of my dad
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Beating your child is child abuse. But if that doesn't convince you not to do it for some reason (very strange that this wouldn't end the discussion... but OK) it's also NOT EFFECTIVE. It doesn't do what it claims. Other methods of enforcing boundaries are more effective.
Beating your child won't keep them from getting pregnant as a teen or ending up in prison. It won't prove that you love them. It just shows you get angry and can not control that anger. It's bad parenting.
I remember you having a much more nuanced (but still principled) take on this, which I often used as an example of sound parenting (or child-caring) advice...
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
