If enough Canadians contact their local representatives, as well the Mark Carney's office this week, we might be spared from this authoritarian mass-surveillance measure called "Age Verification" in Canada.
-
Thanks for getting the word out about this @Em0nM4stodon ! @Paulatics do you know the timeframe for likely action on the Canadian online harms bill?
We just successfully prevented the Washington state legislature from passing several age verification laws, so it certainly can be done! A couple of key takeaways:
- The letter from a coalition of 90 organizations dedicated to LGBTQ+ rights, abortion access, rights for youth, privacy, and freedom of speech has a great summary of the harms of these technologies:
"For vulnerable communities, a biometric scan or an ID upload can serve as a huge obstacle, especially for low-income, unhoused, and undocumented people who already have to navigate an increasingly digital world, with less access to tech tools."
Online ID Checks Censor Abortion Information Age-Verification Laws Seek to Erase LGBTQ+ Identity from the Internet are also good at highlighting harms to vulnerable users.
Discord is the poster child for age verification's privacy problems. Discord Breach Sparks Age Verification & Third-Party Privacy Concerns highlights the risks of hackers getting at age verification data. Discord's age verification rollout has ties to Palantir co-founder and panopticon architect Peter Thiel Hackers Expose Age-Verification Software Powering Surveillance Web highlights how broadly age verification vendors share the data. US laws typically have clauses that put some limits on retention and sharing but in practice they're not enough.
Lobbyists have succeeded in convincing legislators that age estimation software works well ... but actually it doesn't. Error rates are high, and higher for people of color; and people. As a result, even if the vendor claims they're using some fancy-shmancy approach involving biometrics or selfies, in practice a lot of people have to send in their government IDs (with all the aspects of fraud that involves). My [updated written testimony for Appropriations[(https://privacy.thenexus.today/hb-1834-approps/#updated-written-testimony) discusses this, based on the data from the Australian Age Assurance Technology Trial (search for "You've probably heard lobbyists and vendors talk about how accurate today's age systems are, but reality begs to differ") and also talks about the privacy issues.
@eff's Why Isn’t Online Age Verification Just Like Showing Your ID In Person? counters one of the most common talking points of age verification proponents (although, I'm not sure how effective it is, so it might be worth taking another crack at this).
It's critical to highlight age verification's impact on 2SLGBTQIA_ communities. But, 2SLGTQIA2S+-focused organizations have so much on their plate that this may not be on their radar. So as well as contacting legislatures, reach out to 2SLGTQIA2S+-focused orgs, try to get them involved, and brief them on the issues.
@jdp23 @Paulatics @eff This is an amazing summary filled with very helpful resources to fight against age-verification policies. Thank you so much for this Jon
-
@jdp23 @Paulatics @eff This is an amazing summary filled with very helpful resources to fight against age-verification policies. Thank you so much for this Jon
@Em0nM4stodon Glad it's useful! Once I recover from the leg session (which ends today) I'm planning on doing a more detailed writeup but it seemed timely to share something about this right now
Feel free to use any of this stuff If you do somethig for Privacy Guides on age verification activism ... and/or, happy to talk more about what did and didn't work here (realizing that it doesn't necessarily generalize). @mtec probably also has some good perspectives on trying to fight similar legislation in a very different political climate.
-
Thanks for getting the word out about this @Em0nM4stodon ! @Paulatics do you know the timeframe for likely action on the Canadian online harms bill?
We just successfully prevented the Washington state legislature from passing several age verification laws, so it certainly can be done! A couple of key takeaways:
- The letter from a coalition of 90 organizations dedicated to LGBTQ+ rights, abortion access, rights for youth, privacy, and freedom of speech has a great summary of the harms of these technologies:
"For vulnerable communities, a biometric scan or an ID upload can serve as a huge obstacle, especially for low-income, unhoused, and undocumented people who already have to navigate an increasingly digital world, with less access to tech tools."
Online ID Checks Censor Abortion Information Age-Verification Laws Seek to Erase LGBTQ+ Identity from the Internet are also good at highlighting harms to vulnerable users.
Discord is the poster child for age verification's privacy problems. Discord Breach Sparks Age Verification & Third-Party Privacy Concerns highlights the risks of hackers getting at age verification data. Discord's age verification rollout has ties to Palantir co-founder and panopticon architect Peter Thiel Hackers Expose Age-Verification Software Powering Surveillance Web highlights how broadly age verification vendors share the data. US laws typically have clauses that put some limits on retention and sharing but in practice they're not enough.
Lobbyists have succeeded in convincing legislators that age estimation software works well ... but actually it doesn't. Error rates are high, and higher for people of color; and people. As a result, even if the vendor claims they're using some fancy-shmancy approach involving biometrics or selfies, in practice a lot of people have to send in their government IDs (with all the aspects of fraud that involves). My [updated written testimony for Appropriations[(https://privacy.thenexus.today/hb-1834-approps/#updated-written-testimony) discusses this, based on the data from the Australian Age Assurance Technology Trial (search for "You've probably heard lobbyists and vendors talk about how accurate today's age systems are, but reality begs to differ") and also talks about the privacy issues.
@eff's Why Isn’t Online Age Verification Just Like Showing Your ID In Person? counters one of the most common talking points of age verification proponents (although, I'm not sure how effective it is, so it might be worth taking another crack at this).
It's critical to highlight age verification's impact on 2SLGBTQIA_ communities. But, 2SLGTQIA2S+-focused organizations have so much on their plate that this may not be on their radar. So as well as contacting legislatures, reach out to 2SLGTQIA2S+-focused orgs, try to get them involved, and brief them on the issues.
@jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff The Online Harms bill is still gestating; no sense yet of when it might emerge. On the other hand, Bill S-209, which would require proof of age 18 to access porn finished at committee today and will come back to the Senate in two weeks. (It is not govt legislation, but rather the Senate equivalent of a private member’s bill. We call them Senate Public Bills.)
-
@jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff The Online Harms bill is still gestating; no sense yet of when it might emerge. On the other hand, Bill S-209, which would require proof of age 18 to access porn finished at committee today and will come back to the Senate in two weeks. (It is not govt legislation, but rather the Senate equivalent of a private member’s bill. We call them Senate Public Bills.)
@Paulatics If it were about kids, there would be a push to get media literacy in schools. Age verification is dangerous to everyone, its implementation is only a variety of privacy violations. When kids were getting into their father’s or uncle’s porn magazines, no one was searching homes looking for these stashes to protect the children. Kids will be curious, so also make good sex ed mandatory in schools. @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
-
@Paulatics If it were about kids, there would be a push to get media literacy in schools. Age verification is dangerous to everyone, its implementation is only a variety of privacy violations. When kids were getting into their father’s or uncle’s porn magazines, no one was searching homes looking for these stashes to protect the children. Kids will be curious, so also make good sex ed mandatory in schools. @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
@CStamp
@Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @effsame as substance abuse, same as homelessness - its not about helping anyone its about making the problem less visible so it doesn't seem like there's a problem. See, problem gone, it must be solved right?
On the plus side, age verification will make our kids a LOT more tech saavy trying to get around it, spoof it or fake it. Not to mention a cottage industry of of-age ppl farming their IDs out so kids can post on Tik-tok or whatever.
-
@CStamp
@Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @effsame as substance abuse, same as homelessness - its not about helping anyone its about making the problem less visible so it doesn't seem like there's a problem. See, problem gone, it must be solved right?
On the plus side, age verification will make our kids a LOT more tech saavy trying to get around it, spoof it or fake it. Not to mention a cottage industry of of-age ppl farming their IDs out so kids can post on Tik-tok or whatever.
@tezoatlipoca And make things harder for those less tech savvy, such as older people. They are already targets for fraud. @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
-
@CStamp
@Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @effsame as substance abuse, same as homelessness - its not about helping anyone its about making the problem less visible so it doesn't seem like there's a problem. See, problem gone, it must be solved right?
On the plus side, age verification will make our kids a LOT more tech saavy trying to get around it, spoof it or fake it. Not to mention a cottage industry of of-age ppl farming their IDs out so kids can post on Tik-tok or whatever.
@tezoatlipoca @CStamp @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff that is a very savvy comment
-
@Paulatics If it were about kids, there would be a push to get media literacy in schools. Age verification is dangerous to everyone, its implementation is only a variety of privacy violations. When kids were getting into their father’s or uncle’s porn magazines, no one was searching homes looking for these stashes to protect the children. Kids will be curious, so also make good sex ed mandatory in schools. @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
@CStamp @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff very accurate comment
-
@tezoatlipoca @CStamp @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff that is a very savvy comment
@essexman @CStamp @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
The only real way to tackle this is teach kids how to spot the bad shit we're trying to protect them from, while still participating in an internet that may have bad actors.
And NOT like how they did in the UK where they said if you provide a forum of any kind you must provide aggressive content and abuse moderation or you can't have said forum.
1/
-
@essexman @CStamp @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
The only real way to tackle this is teach kids how to spot the bad shit we're trying to protect them from, while still participating in an internet that may have bad actors.
And NOT like how they did in the UK where they said if you provide a forum of any kind you must provide aggressive content and abuse moderation or you can't have said forum.
1/
@essexman @CStamp @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
Thought I'd still pick that over age verification though - frankly there are a lot of open/public onliine forums that could stand with some better moderation... Nextdoor and Facebook Groups Im looking your direction. Seriously, all I want is news about garage sales and lost kittens, but there's always that handful of nutjobs ruining it At least with IRC you can kick the climate change denying healing crystal schill from the channel.
-
@essexman @CStamp @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
Thought I'd still pick that over age verification though - frankly there are a lot of open/public onliine forums that could stand with some better moderation... Nextdoor and Facebook Groups Im looking your direction. Seriously, all I want is news about garage sales and lost kittens, but there's always that handful of nutjobs ruining it At least with IRC you can kick the climate change denying healing crystal schill from the channel.
@tezoatlipoca Sure, but moderation is a different topic. @essexman @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
-
@essexman @CStamp @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
Thought I'd still pick that over age verification though - frankly there are a lot of open/public onliine forums that could stand with some better moderation... Nextdoor and Facebook Groups Im looking your direction. Seriously, all I want is news about garage sales and lost kittens, but there's always that handful of nutjobs ruining it At least with IRC you can kick the climate change denying healing crystal schill from the channel.
@tezoatlipoca @essexman @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff I had a substitute teacher for 2 weeks in high school who, among the things he was supposed to teach, also taught how advertising works. Forever changed how I looked at ads. With the internet, media literacy should be age-appropriate from when they have internet access and it should be drilled into them every year.
-
@Paulatics If it were about kids, there would be a push to get media literacy in schools. Age verification is dangerous to everyone, its implementation is only a variety of privacy violations. When kids were getting into their father’s or uncle’s porn magazines, no one was searching homes looking for these stashes to protect the children. Kids will be curious, so also make good sex ed mandatory in schools. @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
@CStamp @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
Anything forbidden is even more tempting. Our parents taught us to do things responsibly. Exposure completely defused the draw of the taboo.
-
@jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff The Online Harms bill is still gestating; no sense yet of when it might emerge. On the other hand, Bill S-209, which would require proof of age 18 to access porn finished at committee today and will come back to the Senate in two weeks. (It is not govt legislation, but rather the Senate equivalent of a private member’s bill. We call them Senate Public Bills.)
Thanks, @Paulatics ! If 2SLGBTQIA+, digital rights, and tech justice organizations weren't present in the committee discussions, getting them up to speed on the situation and getting their perspectives should be a priority.
From a quick look at the bill text from https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/45-1/s-209 , it seems to have similar issues in terms of putting up access barriers to vulnerable communities as US-based age verification limitations.
The privacy protections in 12(2) are worded better than I've seen here although I'm not seeing any penalties for companies that violate them. For example, In the Discord examples I mentioned in https://neuromatch.social/@jdp23/116217212942892836 , what penalties would Discord and/or their age verification vendor have faced from retaining the images of government IDs (the first example) or sharing it with hudreds of other organizations as part of the age estimation process (the second)?
-
@Em0nM4stodon Glad it's useful! Once I recover from the leg session (which ends today) I'm planning on doing a more detailed writeup but it seemed timely to share something about this right now
Feel free to use any of this stuff If you do somethig for Privacy Guides on age verification activism ... and/or, happy to talk more about what did and didn't work here (realizing that it doesn't necessarily generalize). @mtec probably also has some good perspectives on trying to fight similar legislation in a very different political climate.
@jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon today is the last day of legislative session in Florida as well. Our strategy was that we got saved by the bell and by party politics. Disagreement within the FL GOP led to our two age verification bills being stalled out.
However, showing up to speak against these bills in activist spaces has helped to raise awareness about digital rights issues and build a movement of people. Through advocacy us concerned citizens are finding each other and getting organized.
-
@tezoatlipoca And make things harder for those less tech savvy, such as older people. They are already targets for fraud. @Paulatics @jdp23 @Em0nM4stodon @eff
This is a really important point, and one that doesn't get highlighted enough. Age verification puts everybody at risk, and the risks are higher for already-vulnerable people. "Please submit a picture of your government ID to be able to keep using this software," what could possibly go wrong?
(Apologies for the belated response on this.)
@CStamp @tezoatlipoca @Paulatics @Em0nM4stodon @eff -
E em0nm4stodon@infosec.exchange shared this topic
R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
