*Company makes my life worse through their product*
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@mcc That's why @pluralistic says voting with your wallet is not very effective. We gotta organize.
@ygor @mcc Yes. There are three spheres of morality in the economy: consumer ethics, government regulations, and corporate ethics.
As @pluralistic already wrote, as a consumer, you only get so far. You depend on a government that tries to establish rules for a fair economy and on companies that not only adhere to these rules but also want to act ethically themselves and push for corresponding regulations.
But we are not just consumers-we are citizens and workers. As citizens, we can influence politics, and as workers, we can influence our employers. Money is a great organizer-that's why companies can do this. We call it lobbying. We need to organize our own lobby-without a lot of money.
Wirtschaftsethik: Das moralische Dreieck
Wo befindet sich die Ethik in der Wirtschaft? Bei den Konsumenten oder sind die egoistisch? Bei den Unternehmen oder sollten die nur Geld verdienen? Beim
kaffeeringe.de (kaffeeringe.de)
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@crazyeddie @mcc Oh, I like this. How do I get started?
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@ygor @mcc Yes. There are three spheres of morality in the economy: consumer ethics, government regulations, and corporate ethics.
As @pluralistic already wrote, as a consumer, you only get so far. You depend on a government that tries to establish rules for a fair economy and on companies that not only adhere to these rules but also want to act ethically themselves and push for corresponding regulations.
But we are not just consumers-we are citizens and workers. As citizens, we can influence politics, and as workers, we can influence our employers. Money is a great organizer-that's why companies can do this. We call it lobbying. We need to organize our own lobby-without a lot of money.
Wirtschaftsethik: Das moralische Dreieck
Wo befindet sich die Ethik in der Wirtschaft? Bei den Konsumenten oder sind die egoistisch? Bei den Unternehmen oder sollten die nur Geld verdienen? Beim
kaffeeringe.de (kaffeeringe.de)
@kaffeeringe @ygor @mcc @pluralistic You just described unions.
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@ygor @mcc Yes. There are three spheres of morality in the economy: consumer ethics, government regulations, and corporate ethics.
As @pluralistic already wrote, as a consumer, you only get so far. You depend on a government that tries to establish rules for a fair economy and on companies that not only adhere to these rules but also want to act ethically themselves and push for corresponding regulations.
But we are not just consumers-we are citizens and workers. As citizens, we can influence politics, and as workers, we can influence our employers. Money is a great organizer-that's why companies can do this. We call it lobbying. We need to organize our own lobby-without a lot of money.
Wirtschaftsethik: Das moralische Dreieck
Wo befindet sich die Ethik in der Wirtschaft? Bei den Konsumenten oder sind die egoistisch? Bei den Unternehmen oder sollten die nur Geld verdienen? Beim
kaffeeringe.de (kaffeeringe.de)
@kaffeeringe @ygor @mcc @pluralistic
Lobby without money is community, assiciation or ... trade union.
But in recent decades, many unions have ruined themselves by following money, thinking that was the way to go...
Now the problem is that, IMHO, in 'ome societies, many non-profit associations are frowned upon because they're deemed useless or dedicated to some hidden profit. -
@kaffeeringe @ygor @mcc @pluralistic
Lobby without money is community, assiciation or ... trade union.
But in recent decades, many unions have ruined themselves by following money, thinking that was the way to go...
Now the problem is that, IMHO, in 'ome societies, many non-profit associations are frowned upon because they're deemed useless or dedicated to some hidden profit.@kaffeeringe @ygor @mcc @pluralistic
But go ask the entrepreneurs what they think of unions...
Unfortunately, there's a certain culture that wants to destroy any business that doesn't generate money or work with money.
Because it's convenient to think only about money, to blame money, and when you handle money, you're then "forced" to be right or follow certain structures.
This is wrong because it's an interpretation of the world that needs to change. -
@kaffeeringe @ygor @mcc @pluralistic
But go ask the entrepreneurs what they think of unions...
Unfortunately, there's a certain culture that wants to destroy any business that doesn't generate money or work with money.
Because it's convenient to think only about money, to blame money, and when you handle money, you're then "forced" to be right or follow certain structures.
This is wrong because it's an interpretation of the world that needs to change.@kaffeeringe @ygor @mcc @pluralistic
Anyone who is against unions on principle is against rights and groups.
(Classic) capitalist society loves those who are alone and can be manipulated or deceived without being able to confront them.
This is why free ideas and public property are hated: because they allow direct confrontation.
As long as we remain closed in our bubble, it's easy to make ourselves believe whatever the "bubble generator" wants. -
*Company makes my life worse through their product*
I will boycott this product
*Company continues making my life worse, now through externalities*
How do I boycott an externality
@mcc voting out corrupt politicians that allow the externalities (also: social change so people understand the externalities and vote out corrupt politicians; also see: protest and movement building)
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@whitequark @dragonfi @mcc How many tolstoys is it?
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@kaffeeringe @ygor @mcc @pluralistic You just described unions.
@jens @ygor @mcc @pluralistic And parties. We know.
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*Company makes my life worse through their product*
I will boycott this product
*Company continues making my life worse, now through externalities*
How do I boycott an externality
The First Law of the Varda is to use greater force against itself
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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@miss_rodent
Yeah, pitchforks have a great and noble tradition...
@mcc@viq @mcc It's not a great option - There's a reason we, as a society, decided laws and regulations were preferable.
But they're only preferable if they actually keep their end of the deal (to use the social contract framing of it). If the 'civilized' option fails to corruption, regulatory capture, whatever, then you either try to get it working again (protests, elections, whatever), or you go to the 'uncivilized' options.
