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  3. Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI".

Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI".

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  • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

    But: If you have any chance to speak to unions/workers from different domains and organizations do so.
    It's fascinating how
    a) different organizations are and operate
    b) they all end up with the same handful of structural problems

    carstenschridde@norden.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
    carstenschridde@norden.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
    carstenschridde@norden.social
    wrote last edited by
    #36

    @tante could you please write an essay about this top, i really need to read it!

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    • jaredwhite@indieweb.socialJ jaredwhite@indieweb.social

      @tante 9 times out of 10 (yes that's an anecdotal stat), the people most resistant to AI-all-the-things are the most talented, most dedicated workers. Orgs who penalize or fire those people are committing self-sabotage. 🙁

      ehproque@neopaquita.esE This user is from outside of this forum
      ehproque@neopaquita.esE This user is from outside of this forum
      ehproque@neopaquita.es
      wrote last edited by
      #37

      @jaredwhite @tante why wouldn't they? The people who bullshit for a living are (ironically) not threatened, they're having the time of their lives instead

      patrickleavy@mastodon.socialP 1 Reply Last reply
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      • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

        @tante yeah it's a real "YOU HAD ONE JOB" situation

        missconstrue@mefi.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
        missconstrue@mefi.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
        missconstrue@mefi.social
        wrote last edited by
        #38

        @glyph @tante I had to walk away from being an information architect because everyone wants to pivot to ai, when there is no such thing. I specialize creating information flows that get the right information to the right people. C-suite doesn’t need code docs, and SRE doesn’t need customer service scripts. But all aspects of an enterprise needs documentation for some user in the enterprise. Someone has to create the documentation, map the information, define users, create channels, etc.

        Csuite seems to think that it’s magic. That an LLM can talk to both code creators and end users and define requirements from those interviews, and document both the code base, the user docs, the service docs, the marketing docs, etc, and they can just get rid of the tech writers, marketing writers, graphic designers, usability designers, and the people that manage those teams. I mean, good luck with that.

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        • olafke@muenchen.socialO olafke@muenchen.social

          @tante unfortunately and increasingly, management is most interested in whatever looks good in PowerPoint rather than their product in the real world.

          missconstrue@mefi.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
          missconstrue@mefi.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
          missconstrue@mefi.social
          wrote last edited by
          #39

          @olafke @tante When the goal of every new company is to get purchased by a bigger company, end stage capitalism is eating itself.

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          • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

            @tante yeah it's a real "YOU HAD ONE JOB" situation

            pathunstrom@ngmx.comP This user is from outside of this forum
            pathunstrom@ngmx.comP This user is from outside of this forum
            pathunstrom@ngmx.com
            wrote last edited by
            #40

            @glyph @tante I'm literally the last MIS major at my college, we had to pull my course requirements from the school archives when it was time to graduate.

            Business as an industry was training people to have exactly that skill set, and then just stopped ~15 years ago.

            (Mostly, the position got replaced by analysts or data scientists as close as I can tell.)

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            • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

              Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI". And it's kinda wild hearing their stories from the wild: Management is 100% in fantasy "AI" can do everything land and makes huge plans for how to use "AI" to cut workers when real projects that supposedly can do 50% of a specific task end up being able to do 8%. And they still go live. It's fucking bonkers. CEO's are really not okay.

              nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
              nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
              nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social
              wrote last edited by
              #41

              @tante Truly, they're the real problem behind all this... It never would have even reached this point without their complete inability to live inside reality due I suppose to the complete disconnect with the real world all that money seems to give them. The scam would have fallen short positively ages ago and it never even would have been pushed on people in the first place.

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              • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI". And it's kinda wild hearing their stories from the wild: Management is 100% in fantasy "AI" can do everything land and makes huge plans for how to use "AI" to cut workers when real projects that supposedly can do 50% of a specific task end up being able to do 8%. And they still go live. It's fucking bonkers. CEO's are really not okay.

                reallylazybear@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                reallylazybear@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                reallylazybear@mastodon.social
                wrote last edited by
                #42

                @tante All in the name of "efficiency" and maximum profits. Number must go up up up! idk.

                What I do know is that CEO's are usually out of touch with reality, same with rich people as well.

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                • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                  @glyph the amount of times where I asked a CEO/CTO about their "AI" project and how they actually measure cost or what their measurable criteria for success are and only got someone looking at me as if I was speaking in tongues is really scary.

                  Like: Isn't turning everything into metrics and measurements in order to make data driven decisions what management is supposed to do?

                  richrarobi@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                  richrarobi@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                  richrarobi@mastodon.social
                  wrote last edited by
                  #43

                  @tante @glyph

                  Mostly 'Managers' don't have a clue.
                  Sales run rings round them, with half truths and promises.
                  Tech-Staff have to clean up the mess, underpaid,
                  often without adequate training.

                  It is the history of #britain , the charge of the light brigade enacted time after time, Tommy Atkins in the trenches, the many wounded in the Boer War

                  Incompetence of management. Upper class twits.
                  Thin red line, you aren't allowed to duck.

                  AI will fail eventually - bad management

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                  • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                    Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI". And it's kinda wild hearing their stories from the wild: Management is 100% in fantasy "AI" can do everything land and makes huge plans for how to use "AI" to cut workers when real projects that supposedly can do 50% of a specific task end up being able to do 8%. And they still go live. It's fucking bonkers. CEO's are really not okay.

                    snoopj@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                    snoopj@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                    snoopj@hachyderm.io
                    wrote last edited by
                    #44

                    @tante I struggle to remember a time in my life when CEOs were "okay"

                    but what's goin on right now, phew

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                    • emma@orbital.horseE emma@orbital.horse

                      @tante do you have a link to that framework?

                      Also: https://labornotes.org/2026/03/four-union-strategies-fight-ai

                      n_dimension@infosec.exchangeN This user is from outside of this forum
                      n_dimension@infosec.exchangeN This user is from outside of this forum
                      n_dimension@infosec.exchange
                      wrote last edited by
                      #45

                      @emma @tante

                      In #australia the #actu the peak #union body has betrayed it's members by signing a deal with #microslop just as they fired 15,000 public servants, due to #ai encroachment.

                      I've done some work analysing the betrayal by the union.
                      #regulateai #unionstrong

                      Link Preview Image
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                      • otherdog@mastodon.socialO otherdog@mastodon.social

                        @glyph @tante Indeed and if you’re using something like Claude Opus on a high thinking level the enterprise plan is going to churn through cash at a remarkable rate. I still see very little serious cost analysis.

                        ratsnakegames@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                        ratsnakegames@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                        ratsnakegames@mastodon.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #46

                        @otherdog @glyph @tante you cannot even *do* cost analysis at this point because AI companies are deeply in the red, so whatever prices we have now are clearly just made-up numbers completely detached from the real costs involved with AI

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                        • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                          Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI". And it's kinda wild hearing their stories from the wild: Management is 100% in fantasy "AI" can do everything land and makes huge plans for how to use "AI" to cut workers when real projects that supposedly can do 50% of a specific task end up being able to do 8%. And they still go live. It's fucking bonkers. CEO's are really not okay.

                          skjeggtroll@mastodon.onlineS This user is from outside of this forum
                          skjeggtroll@mastodon.onlineS This user is from outside of this forum
                          skjeggtroll@mastodon.online
                          wrote last edited by
                          #47

                          @tante

                          I'm genuinely starting to wonder if not LinkedIn has a significant share of the blame for this. There is a certain strain of brain-rot (not just related to AI) that seems to have unreasonably prevalent in management, and I'm not sure what other contamination vector there might be.

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                          • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                            Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI". And it's kinda wild hearing their stories from the wild: Management is 100% in fantasy "AI" can do everything land and makes huge plans for how to use "AI" to cut workers when real projects that supposedly can do 50% of a specific task end up being able to do 8%. And they still go live. It's fucking bonkers. CEO's are really not okay.

                            sandzwerg@chaos.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                            sandzwerg@chaos.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                            sandzwerg@chaos.social
                            wrote last edited by
                            #48

                            @tante Goals for this year from the top: everyone should use AI. We shall find at least one good use case for AI per team. So much bullshit.

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                            • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                              Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI". And it's kinda wild hearing their stories from the wild: Management is 100% in fantasy "AI" can do everything land and makes huge plans for how to use "AI" to cut workers when real projects that supposedly can do 50% of a specific task end up being able to do 8%. And they still go live. It's fucking bonkers. CEO's are really not okay.

                              netraven@hear-me.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                              netraven@hear-me.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                              netraven@hear-me.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #49

                              @tante
                              The people most likely to be destabilized by LLMs are the people most insulated from contradiction, and executives are professionally insulated from contradiction.

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                              • snoopj@hachyderm.ioS snoopj@hachyderm.io

                                @aud @tante @glyph well they do have metrics, it's just that they're generally ad-hoc and terrible metrics

                                and even when they aren't, Goodhart's Law ensures that relying on them turns the exercise into farce relatively soon.

                                arguably that kind of farce is the entire history of the false spring: "simply scale it up" worked surprisingly well, then worked surprisingly well again, and therefore we can extrapolate that it will work forever and [financial irresponsibility] and oops now it's not working anymore oh shit oh fuck uhhhh AGENTS, we're doing agents now! Yea, that's the ticket. (and so on)

                                glyph@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                                glyph@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                                glyph@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #50

                                @SnoopJ @aud @tante there so many people who are really, actually offering incentives and bonuses for *token use* though. Like it's not just a thing that is happening somewhere, it seems to be one of the more *common* mechanisms.

                                I was sure when I first heard about this that it must be some kind of self-dealing kickback scam? But as far as I can tell… no? It's just a thing that managers *actually* think is a good idea? Literally incentivizing direct waste by employees

                                cford@toot.thoughtworks.comC 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • ehproque@neopaquita.esE ehproque@neopaquita.es

                                  @jaredwhite @tante why wouldn't they? The people who bullshit for a living are (ironically) not threatened, they're having the time of their lives instead

                                  patrickleavy@mastodon.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  patrickleavy@mastodon.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  patrickleavy@mastodon.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #51

                                  @ehproque @jaredwhite @tante I've read some messed up stuff today - but this could be the most terrifying.

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                                  • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                                    Which was really fucked up to see: These folks actually want to protect their organizations from burning a lot of resources on bullshit instead of fixing actual problems that help the workers _and_ the organization. And they have to actively fight management who got their brains ruined on linkedin.

                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    slotos@toot.community
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #52

                                    @tante I can’t get an answer to a simple question for the last few months: „what’s the goal and how will you know we’ve achieved it specifically thanks to AI?”

                                    Because if the work I’ve been doing to remove obstacles to productivity for the last year and a half will get attributed to this bullshit, I’ll start complying maliciously.

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                                    • larsmb@mastodon.onlineL larsmb@mastodon.online

                                      @glyph @tante

                                      "AI is going to make us more productive at shipping our software."

                                      "Great! Amazing! That must be several phd theses you got there! Well done! Didn't know you had it in you."

                                      "?!?"

                                      "Well, I mean, you must have figured out how to measure software development productivity reliably, right? What's our baseline at?"

                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      slotos@toot.community
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #53

                                      @larsmb I didn’t know how much I wanted to scream until I read this…

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                                      • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                                        Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI". And it's kinda wild hearing their stories from the wild: Management is 100% in fantasy "AI" can do everything land and makes huge plans for how to use "AI" to cut workers when real projects that supposedly can do 50% of a specific task end up being able to do 8%. And they still go live. It's fucking bonkers. CEO's are really not okay.

                                        caffetino@social.pikaia.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
                                        caffetino@social.pikaia.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
                                        caffetino@social.pikaia.org
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #54

                                        @tante what a time to be alive. I'd be interested in seeing how you frame the discussions.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                                          Spend the day talking to workers council members about "AI". And it's kinda wild hearing their stories from the wild: Management is 100% in fantasy "AI" can do everything land and makes huge plans for how to use "AI" to cut workers when real projects that supposedly can do 50% of a specific task end up being able to do 8%. And they still go live. It's fucking bonkers. CEO's are really not okay.

                                          ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #55

                                          @tante

                                          To quote the science fiction writer Larry Niven:

                                          Think of it as evolution in action

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