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  3. On AI: at an embarrassing age I learned that almost everyone hates reading.

On AI: at an embarrassing age I learned that almost everyone hates reading.

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  • bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB bert_hubert@eupolicy.social

    Lately, I've been wondering if I was not only wrong about reading, but also about thinking. Like most of my friends, I enjoy thinking. I love to do research. It is one of my big hobbies. But perhaps I'm like my runner friends who also struggle to believe that not everyone likes running. Might *thinking* be painful for people? Something to be avoided? This would explain lots of stuff. Like the rampant AI enthusiasm. Thoughts? 2/2

    S This user is from outside of this forum
    S This user is from outside of this forum
    softwaretheron@mas.to
    wrote last edited by
    #35

    @bert_hubert
    Someone told me once that they voted for Margaret Thatcher because she was a strong leader.
    This explains that exactly.

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    • leonoverweel@mastodon.socialL leonoverweel@mastodon.social

      @bert_hubert this is why populists gain power, right? Don’t bother with critical thinking, nuance, data or research; just listen to the strong man who will tell you which evil people you should hate because they’re secretly plotting to burn down everything you love — but luckily the strong man is onto them and will protect you!

      goose@fosstodon.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
      goose@fosstodon.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
      goose@fosstodon.org
      wrote last edited by
      #36

      @leonoverweel @bert_hubert it's sort of not wrong! A lot of intellectuals are extremely dangerous.

      It's like a doctor who murders her husband. There's a good chance it will be instantly lethal, and with a minimum of fuss.

      Also, think of how Einstein stimulated the Manhattan project.

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      • bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB bert_hubert@eupolicy.social

        Lately, I've been wondering if I was not only wrong about reading, but also about thinking. Like most of my friends, I enjoy thinking. I love to do research. It is one of my big hobbies. But perhaps I'm like my runner friends who also struggle to believe that not everyone likes running. Might *thinking* be painful for people? Something to be avoided? This would explain lots of stuff. Like the rampant AI enthusiasm. Thoughts? 2/2

        diazona@techhub.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
        diazona@techhub.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
        diazona@techhub.social
        wrote last edited by
        #37

        @bert_hubert As someone who finds exercise mostly unpleasant, I've often suspected but never really confirmed that athletic people fundamentally don't understand what that experience is like for me. It stands to reason that the same would be true for reading and deep thinking.

        Though, I gotta imagine there has to be some ignorance or outright denial of the fact that LLMs don't necessarily do what you think they're doing. (It sounds kind of like someone discovering wheelchair basketball and deciding "hey now I can play basketball" but if the wheelchairs randomly turn on their own)

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        • thomastc@mastodon.gamedev.placeT thomastc@mastodon.gamedev.place

          @bert_hubert Reminds me of Kahneman's work. Super short summary from fallible wetware memory: System 2 (the deliberate, reflective, reasoning, uniquely human part of the brain) is lazy by default, and tends to not kick into action unless triggered in the right way. System 1 is faster and more efficient for almost all inputs.

          Maybe it's a matter of training, exercise, habit, call it what you will, that makes System 2 pay attention sooner in some people than in others.

          lmk@infosec.exchangeL This user is from outside of this forum
          lmk@infosec.exchangeL This user is from outside of this forum
          lmk@infosec.exchange
          wrote last edited by
          #38

          @thomastc @bert_hubert People avoid System 2 thinking which requires attention and is metabolically costly - laziness. I'd say the US (and many other places) political situation proves a widespread lack of critical thinking.

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          • bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB bert_hubert@eupolicy.social

            Lately, I've been wondering if I was not only wrong about reading, but also about thinking. Like most of my friends, I enjoy thinking. I love to do research. It is one of my big hobbies. But perhaps I'm like my runner friends who also struggle to believe that not everyone likes running. Might *thinking* be painful for people? Something to be avoided? This would explain lots of stuff. Like the rampant AI enthusiasm. Thoughts? 2/2

            ulrikeheiss@eldritch.cafeU This user is from outside of this forum
            ulrikeheiss@eldritch.cafeU This user is from outside of this forum
            ulrikeheiss@eldritch.cafe
            wrote last edited by
            #39

            @bert_hubert I guess it depends on how you define thinking. I was taught (but I haven't fact-checked this) that thinking requires ridiculous amounts of energy, so it makes sense to avoid it. On the other hand thinking and planning ahead would probably have helped a group of hunter-gatherers to survive. To avoid it entirely would not have been an advantage.
            I was also tought that this is why we have developed routines as ways of saving energy by not thinking about repetitive tasks. This would sort of balance the opposing interests. But the price we pay for this balance, is that there is a resistance against thinking we have to overcome, before we get into the flow of it. And I believe some people find this resistance harder to overcome than others. Or they were never encouraged to overcome it.
            And something I have noticed in this context: some people seem to be less curious than others. I believe curiosity helps me overcome my resistance to thinking and I'd be interested to know if there is research to back this up.

            bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB 1 Reply Last reply
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            • bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB bert_hubert@eupolicy.social

              @duarte the problem with this theory is that it appears thinking does not use more calories. I'd be thin by now otherwise also! The brain uses a depressingly constant 25W of power. There are some anecdotes about chess grandmasters burning through more energy, but it appears this happens through fretting and not through the brain.

              duarte@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
              duarte@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
              duarte@hachyderm.io
              wrote last edited by
              #40

              @bert_hubert True! Maybe it’s avoiding effort or the perception thereof, or avoiding an expected feeling of fatigue (either muscular or directed attention fatigue).

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              • bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB bert_hubert@eupolicy.social

                On AI: at an embarrassing age I learned that almost everyone hates reading. Most writers are also avid readers, and are often not aware that 20% of the population is (almost) illiterate. Reading is a chore for the majority of people. For a typical author this is an unpleasant and hard to grasp truth. But once you believe it, you can change your writing for the better. By for example never "burying the lede". Just start your letter/advert/post/whatever with your main message. 1/2

                denofearth@mas.toD This user is from outside of this forum
                denofearth@mas.toD This user is from outside of this forum
                denofearth@mas.to
                wrote last edited by
                #41

                @bert_hubert
                The bit about burying the lede is maybe not (only) because people don't read, but using inbox preview to sort and skip mail. So if your letter looks like:

                Dear Mike,

                Thanks for that report on the McCarthy file, much appreciated and timely.

                On that note, can I ask you to amend appendix 1 to add the following...

                Mike's Inbox preview will show the thanks. No need to bother opening, mark read and file, move on.

                I've taken to putting my requirements in the first sentence at the expense of civility.

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                • ulrikeheiss@eldritch.cafeU ulrikeheiss@eldritch.cafe

                  @bert_hubert I guess it depends on how you define thinking. I was taught (but I haven't fact-checked this) that thinking requires ridiculous amounts of energy, so it makes sense to avoid it. On the other hand thinking and planning ahead would probably have helped a group of hunter-gatherers to survive. To avoid it entirely would not have been an advantage.
                  I was also tought that this is why we have developed routines as ways of saving energy by not thinking about repetitive tasks. This would sort of balance the opposing interests. But the price we pay for this balance, is that there is a resistance against thinking we have to overcome, before we get into the flow of it. And I believe some people find this resistance harder to overcome than others. Or they were never encouraged to overcome it.
                  And something I have noticed in this context: some people seem to be less curious than others. I believe curiosity helps me overcome my resistance to thinking and I'd be interested to know if there is research to back this up.

                  bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                  bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                  bert_hubert@eupolicy.social
                  wrote last edited by
                  #42

                  @UlrikeHeiss thinking, oddly, does not appear to require additional calories beyond the 25W our brain consumes non-stop. And this is what makes it weird! But perhaps the costs of thinking are more subtle. There are some anecdotes of chess players burning through more energy, but this does not appear to be brain related. Also if thinking required calories I'd be thin by now! 🙂

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                  • bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB bert_hubert@eupolicy.social

                    Lately, I've been wondering if I was not only wrong about reading, but also about thinking. Like most of my friends, I enjoy thinking. I love to do research. It is one of my big hobbies. But perhaps I'm like my runner friends who also struggle to believe that not everyone likes running. Might *thinking* be painful for people? Something to be avoided? This would explain lots of stuff. Like the rampant AI enthusiasm. Thoughts? 2/2

                    winfried@fosstodon.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                    winfried@fosstodon.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                    winfried@fosstodon.org
                    wrote last edited by
                    #43

                    @bert_hubert that's an interesting thought and would explain many conflicts and misunderstandings, it seems to have something to do with "cognitive bias"

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                    • bert_hubert@eupolicy.socialB bert_hubert@eupolicy.social

                      Lately, I've been wondering if I was not only wrong about reading, but also about thinking. Like most of my friends, I enjoy thinking. I love to do research. It is one of my big hobbies. But perhaps I'm like my runner friends who also struggle to believe that not everyone likes running. Might *thinking* be painful for people? Something to be avoided? This would explain lots of stuff. Like the rampant AI enthusiasm. Thoughts? 2/2

                      ketumbra@infosec.exchangeK This user is from outside of this forum
                      ketumbra@infosec.exchangeK This user is from outside of this forum
                      ketumbra@infosec.exchange
                      wrote last edited by
                      #44

                      @bert_hubert but if you don't like thinking, I would guess you're not in a job that AI can help with...?

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