Americans really got bored with free trade, the best and brightest in the world wanting to come here, low corruption and childhood diseases like measles being eradicated.
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@codinghorror @carnage4life You do *not* have a polarized two-party system. You have one boring middle:of-the-spectrum party and a corrupt lying cheating fascist-adjacent ultra-extremist party. The problem is unipolar.
@codinghorror @carnage4life I forgot to mention racist and misogynist.
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@carnage4life so there were no problems in America to address? This system was working well for all Americans? https://infosec.exchange/@codinghorror/116098902726924703
@codinghorror @carnage4life There are definitely problems in the US. Neither party will address it because it means doing something about income inequality and get wealthy people paying their fair share.
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@jgg @timbray @codinghorror @carnage4life it’s not even that people will pick the outsider just to try something different but a lot of people just give up and don’t bother.
One day hopefully the democrats realize that the strategy of ‘you don’t have a choice but to vote for us’ isn’t inspiring or even democratic.
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@allsumnull @carnage4life And yet folks still are well off enough that they are isolated from the political process.
That's the point and the problem: too many people think that politics doesn't effect them. And they're able to do that because at some level, things are good enough.The counter argument here is that that's the politicians fault for not being engaging, or the oligarchs fault for distracting with bread and circuses, but the fact remains that people aren't hurting enough to engage
@qkslvrwolf @carnage4life or perhaps they feel there is no point engaging. That the process is rigged, and largely serves political donors, and they might be justified in thinking so.
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@qkslvrwolf @carnage4life or perhaps they feel there is no point engaging. That the process is rigged, and largely serves political donors, and they might be justified in thinking so.
@allsumnull @carnage4life Blah blah blah that means "they" are comfy enough you don't understand what we all have to lose.
This kinda bullshit is exactly the point carnage4life made.
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@jgg @timbray @carnage4life I agree with this and the people talking to the actual folks affected knew with 80% certainty the baseball bat was coming. Email me if you want specific citations and details. I have them all.
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@codinghorror @carnage4life There are definitely problems in the US. Neither party will address it because it means doing something about income inequality and get wealthy people paying their fair share.
@fds @carnage4life I'm working on a few things that will help that I can't quite talk about yet. On top of what is visible.
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@codinghorror @carnage4life I forgot to mention racist and misogynist.
@timbray @carnage4life I agree but scholars disagree with you on this point (that we don't have a wildly polarized two party system). That's .. demonstrably untrue. Email me for all the citations. They are in my timeline, too. Either way. Doesn't matter.
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@timbray @carnage4life I agree but scholars disagree with you on this point (that we don't have a wildly polarized two party system). That's .. demonstrably untrue. Email me for all the citations. They are in my timeline, too. Either way. Doesn't matter.
@codinghorror @timbray @carnage4life I think both things are true: politics in the US are heavily polarized between Democrats and Republicans, but also neither of them is leftist: the Democrats are centrists and the Republicans are far right. Occasional leftist politicians run as Democrats, not because that party is left-leaning, but because in that country there is only one other party and it is a far right one.
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@isonno @DigitalPatch @carnage4life my bad. This avenue will not work, but I think Illinois is on to something; check latest news.
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@codinghorror @timbray @carnage4life I think both things are true: politics in the US are heavily polarized between Democrats and Republicans, but also neither of them is leftist: the Democrats are centrists and the Republicans are far right. Occasional leftist politicians run as Democrats, not because that party is left-leaning, but because in that country there is only one other party and it is a far right one.
@oantolin @timbray @carnage4life with >2 parties you can form coalitions. How do you do that with a hard lock on two parties? How?
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@timbray @carnage4life I agree but scholars disagree with you on this point (that we don't have a wildly polarized two party system). That's .. demonstrably untrue. Email me for all the citations. They are in my timeline, too. Either way. Doesn't matter.
@codinghorror @carnage4life I guess the problem is the word "polarized" - the etymology is straightforward from "polar" as in "polar" opposites", and thus the word has the strong connotation that the poles are unreasonable and truth is somewhere in the middle. When you're talking about current US politics, that’s actively misleading and dangerous. I think anyone wanting to argue seriously about the current scene should really stop using "polarized" and "polarization".
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@codinghorror @carnage4life I guess the problem is the word "polarized" - the etymology is straightforward from "polar" as in "polar" opposites", and thus the word has the strong connotation that the poles are unreasonable and truth is somewhere in the middle. When you're talking about current US politics, that’s actively misleading and dangerous. I think anyone wanting to argue seriously about the current scene should really stop using "polarized" and "polarization".
@timbray @carnage4life yes, I mean in terms of extremes us vs them, either you are with us or I have sworn a blood oath against all of your kind, etc. It’s palpable here and disturbing
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@codinghorror @carnage4life I guess the problem is the word "polarized" - the etymology is straightforward from "polar" as in "polar" opposites", and thus the word has the strong connotation that the poles are unreasonable and truth is somewhere in the middle. When you're talking about current US politics, that’s actively misleading and dangerous. I think anyone wanting to argue seriously about the current scene should really stop using "polarized" and "polarization".
@timbray @codinghorror @carnage4life how about “diametrically opposed” instead of “polarized”?
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@timbray @carnage4life yes, I mean in terms of extremes us vs them, either you are with us or I have sworn a blood oath against all of your kind, etc. It’s palpable here and disturbing
@codinghorror @carnage4life OK, but you talk about "us" and "them" as if they're equivalent forces, and they’re just not. The problem is that one of the factions is insane. It is that specifically that is causing the breakdown of conversation, not some generalized bipolar extremism.
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@codinghorror @carnage4life OK, but you talk about "us" and "them" as if they're equivalent forces, and they’re just not. The problem is that one of the factions is insane. It is that specifically that is causing the breakdown of conversation, not some generalized bipolar extremism.
@timbray @carnage4life hard, HARD DISAGREE; the incentives are all aligned to create this dynamic for maximum "if it bleeds, it leads" competitive tension, especially here in the USA. In fact, the problem is N=2. N>2 means you can form coalitions and there's more than "us and them" to choose from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_and_Them_(song)
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@timbray @carnage4life hard, HARD DISAGREE; the incentives are all aligned to create this dynamic for maximum "if it bleeds, it leads" competitive tension, especially here in the USA. In fact, the problem is N=2. N>2 means you can form coalitions and there's more than "us and them" to choose from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_and_Them_(song)
@timbray @carnage4life either of you can call me right now to discuss if you want, you know my email address. Red five standing by.
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@timbray @carnage4life either of you can call me right now to discuss if you want, you know my email address. Red five standing by.
"The lyrics of the song were written by Waters. They describe the senseless nature of war and the ignorance of modern-day humans who have been taken over by consumerism and materialism. In an interview, Waters shared the significance of each verse:
The first verse is about going to war, how on the front line we don't get much chance to communicate with one another because someone else has decided that we shouldn't. The second verse is about civil liberties, racism and colour prejudice. The last verse is about passing a tramp in the street and not helping."
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"The lyrics of the song were written by Waters. They describe the senseless nature of war and the ignorance of modern-day humans who have been taken over by consumerism and materialism. In an interview, Waters shared the significance of each verse:
The first verse is about going to war, how on the front line we don't get much chance to communicate with one another because someone else has decided that we shouldn't. The second verse is about civil liberties, racism and colour prejudice. The last verse is about passing a tramp in the street and not helping."
@timbray @carnage4life us. and them. That's the problem, and you know it.
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@timbray @carnage4life us. and them. That's the problem, and you know it.
@timbray @carnage4life "I'm tired, boss."
