We need a solution to process international payments that isn't an American fintech company or cryptocurrency and is privacy-respectful like yesterday.

[paradegrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org]

@Em0nM4stodon

Payment, and the banking world in general, are not privacy respecting in any way shape or form.

Your banker knows what you do with your money.

The only privacy respecting system of payment is cash. Period.

And I used to run complex IT systems for banks.

[em0nm4stodon@infosec.exchange]

@ParadeGrotesque I don't mean anonymous. Anonymity and privacy are different concepts.

Of course, legal names and transaction information are necessary to collect for legal reasons. But, for example, facial prints aren't, copies of official ID by anyone else who isn't a bank aren't either, sharing this information to monetize it with commercial partners is entirely unnecessarily privacy-invasive.

There are many things that can make a payment processing solution more privacy-respectful, without being anonymous. Data minimization, and strict policies on access and sharing are key here.

[rhelune@todon.eu]

@NatureMC @Em0nM4stodon Do you mean Wero?

[webhat@infosec.exchange]

@Em0nM4stodon I think what @ParadeGrotesque is trying to say, is that there is no form of digital banking that ensures privacy. This is why the EU has passed many laws to stop banks doing nefarious things with the breadcrumbs that we leave due to our transactions

[em0nm4stodon@infosec.exchange]

@webhat @ParadeGrotesque What I mean is a solution that would practice data minimization, protect well the information it has to collect, and would not monetize this information with external partners (everywhere, not just in Europe). This would be privacy-respectful in the payment-processing world, compared to currently available solutions. Nothing will be anonymous, of course.

[karlheinzhaslip@climatejustice.social]

@Em0nM4stodon Bank of China

[naturemc@mastodon.online]

@rhelune We have 2 different initiatives in the EU:

- Wero, a private-sector initiative by the European Payments Initiative (EPI): https://europeanbusinessmagazine.com/business/europes-24-trillion-breakup-with-visa-and-mastercard-has-begun/

- and the EU-states initiative EuroPA for installing a central bank-backed digital currency usable across the eurozone: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.html

And yes, the first step to become independent of US data-collectors is Wero.

@Em0nM4stodon

[michaelgemar@cosocial.ca]

@Em0nM4stodon @GhostOnTheHalfShell And while we’re at it, isn’t prudish about processing payments for adult-oriented businesses.

[kkarhan@infosec.space]

@Em0nM4stodon Good Luck finding anything at all...

• #wero sadly isn't gonna be available ouside of #SEPA so it's not even competitive to #PayPal and at best will mirror Russia's #Mir Payment System.
  
  • And so far is likely gonna have less acceptance retail than #AliPay, #WeChatPay, #JCB & #UnionPay in the #EU. Those 4 don't even allow people outside the "P.R." #China (or in the case of JCB: #Japan) to make an account.
• #GnuTaler is #Vapourware and doesn't even constitute a real currency.
  • But merely a hodge-podge payment system that at best competes with other closed-loop solutions like Sony's #FeliCa (as used in #Pasmo, #Suica & #OctopusCard systems).
• Requiring #NoKYC makes it basically illegal to operate or found in the entire EU / #EFTA, #USA and most other places around the world under false pretenses like "#AML" & "#CTF".
  • I can cofirm @ParadeGrotesque 's insights as true: Even if you are working for a payment processor who bankrolls the "OnlyFans we have at home", you gonna have to do more "due diligence" re: payouts than a mere 18USC2257-style form.
• Well, the least worst that actually works that I can point at is #Monero, which is why it's being systematically attacked with #delistings and #debanking if not flat-out #criminalization.
  • But since you explicitly said "not cryptocureency" that makes it kinda moot.
  • Don't even get me started on @signalapp 's #Shitcoin aka. #MobileCoin, which even #TechLiterates like @techlore were unable to buy despite trying...

Again: Good luck finding something, because the #US will basically criminalize anything even remotely competing to their "#Quadropoly" of #AMEX, #Visa, #MasterCard & PayPal!

[cmars@infosec.exchange]

This post is deleted!

[paradegrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org]

@Em0nM4stodon

If that's the case, then there are multiple initiatives in Europe to do that.

Wero and the EU commission digital euro are the two that come to mind.

The goal of both is to have Europe controlled digital transactions and money transfer facilities between banks all over Europe.

You can also take a look at things like GIE "Carte Bleue", which is France credit card system. There are similar systems in other European countries, which are US independent.

@webhat

[paradegrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org]

@kkarhan

I am not that negative. I think European systems will take off... Eventually... And provide a limited independence vs the big US 4. Lessons have been learned, the hard way (see ICC blacklisting, etc).

Privacy respecting European systems will be... But only slightly better than US providers.

But, going back to my original argument: cash is king. It's interesting to note that the country most attached to large euros banknotes is Germany.

@Em0nM4stodon @signalapp @techlore

[distractions@mastodon.social]

@Em0nM4stodon not sure where you are located, but us EU citizens in Germany, France and Belgium potentially already have access to WERO, which is a PayPal alternative handled by the partner banks.

It’s not much yet, but it’s a start!

[kkarhan@infosec.space]

@ParadeGrotesque @Em0nM4stodon I agree, and #Germany restricting #CashPayments to €5k is not only bad amidst the #Greedflation but also absurd.

• Worse is only the abolishment of the €500 Banknote which I think will be more needed than ever amidst #inflation.
  • Worst is that the #ECB never introduced €2 and €1 banknotes, so millions if not billions of Euros in Coins are stuck overseas as people can't exchange their tips for local currency.

[freyjfreyj@mastodon.social]

@Em0nM4stodon I'm in the US and want a different system here. I try not to use PayPal as much as possible. That is the only one I use. I don't use Venmo, Applepay, etc. And I know Venmo is owned by PayPal. I mainly use cash, and I do have a credit union.

[plutarch@gotosocial.plutar.ch]

@Em0nM4stodon

It's sad that cash in the mail is still the best option in some cases.  That takes forever and, for obvious reasons, has a tendency to go missing.  At least in the U.S., it's guaranteed not to be opened at any point along the way, but as soon as it has to cross a border, it might be.  Also, not everyone's honest, especially when said opportunity involves cash.

[sheamuspatt@mstdn.ca]

@Em0nM4stodon It's needed, not just to avoid feeding the fintech beast, but to avoid retaliation if you stand up to the Israeli regime and its support by the USA.
Eg judges and others on the International Criminal Court have lost access to critical financial services for daring to lay charges against Netenyahu.
https://apnews.com/article/international-court-sanctions-trump-icc-hague-4cdefe4de067432f6cdb9b137908c463

#ICC #gaza

[sheamuspatt@mstdn.ca]

@Em0nM4stodon Francesca Albanese has also been sanctioned by American fintech for telling the truth about what Israel is doing in Gaza.
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rjwbji7z11l

#Israel #gaza #FrancescaAlbenese

[rastal@mastodon.social]

@Em0nM4stodon BRICS is supposed to be the rival system to US dollar.

Although, BRICS is in disarray since the Iran war kicked off, mostly due to India backstabbing other key member states.

[iwein@mas.to]

@Em0nM4stodon I like Mollie (Dutch psp, supports multi currency and many methods including cc of course)