As the news is reporting, sadly there was a terrible plane crash at LaGuardia Airport at 23:38 local last night.
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Audio of the incident
Here is a half assed video I threw together last night to show the flight path of the plane synced with the ATC audio
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Here is a half assed video I threw together last night to show the flight path of the plane synced with the ATC audio
Actually Victor made the video already here is his
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
(www.youtube.com)
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Actually Victor made the video already here is his
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
(www.youtube.com)
And Mentour Pilot did a livestream talking about it
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
(www.youtube.com)
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And Mentour Pilot did a livestream talking about it
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
(www.youtube.com)
Video of the actual crash now out. Content warning obviously.
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Video of the actual crash now out. Content warning obviously.
@chillybot omg whoa...
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Video of the actual crash now out. Content warning obviously.
@chillybot thats, uhm, suboptimal
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Video of the actual crash now out. Content warning obviously.
NTSB Press Briefing on the incident
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UieRrg2etdY -
NTSB Press Briefing on the incident
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UieRrg2etdYAnd blancolirio did a video on the crash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnSGMPaJ2OM
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And blancolirio did a video on the crash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnSGMPaJ2OM
@chillybot I listened to the ATC of this incident. Brutal.
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And blancolirio did a video on the crash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnSGMPaJ2OM
Okay I watched the second NTSB press briefing twice yesterday and have some juicy deets to dish out for you fine folks. Some of this was previously available/self evident but I wanted to wait a bit for the NTSB to do its thing. Here we go
Longer post so maybe bookmark and read later. First off, as the chairwoman succinctly emphasized: If a airline crash happens, many things likely went wrong. Flying is so safe because it has defense in depth built in. I personally would like to say we must resist the very natural desire to focus on "okay, who f'ed up". This is a search for the truth.
The controller clearly at least twice told the truck to stop before the crash
Two controllers were in the air traffic control tower cab (in layman's terms, the top most part of the tower with windows where the active ATCs oversee things and work) at the time. They had just gone on duty for the "midnight" (22:30-06:30) shift at ~22:30ish local time.
There is conflicting information on which air traffic controller was in charge of operations on the ground.
The controllers at the time were dealing with another emergency on the ground. So there was a heavy workload on controllers who were also working multiple positions. NTSB cautions about talking about "controller distraction" as they were doing their job.
The controllers were doing combined positions since it was the midnight shift. This is the standard operating procedure for a lot of airports, including Newark. (See other #ChillyATCAdventures posts). The chairwoman has concerns about this nationwide common practice and so do I.
Conflicting reports on how many certified ATCs were in the facility overall. ATCs are supposed to take periodic breaks and be relieved by another controller.
The truck did not have a transponder to report its location. The airport did have airport surface detection equipment (ASDE-X) but the ground radar did not alert since the proximity of multiple ARFF trucks caused the system to have low confidence.
The automatic runway status lights were operational and indicated it was not clear to cross the runway
Chairwoman Homendy is awesome, as usual
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Okay I watched the second NTSB press briefing twice yesterday and have some juicy deets to dish out for you fine folks. Some of this was previously available/self evident but I wanted to wait a bit for the NTSB to do its thing. Here we go
Longer post so maybe bookmark and read later. First off, as the chairwoman succinctly emphasized: If a airline crash happens, many things likely went wrong. Flying is so safe because it has defense in depth built in. I personally would like to say we must resist the very natural desire to focus on "okay, who f'ed up". This is a search for the truth.
The controller clearly at least twice told the truck to stop before the crash
Two controllers were in the air traffic control tower cab (in layman's terms, the top most part of the tower with windows where the active ATCs oversee things and work) at the time. They had just gone on duty for the "midnight" (22:30-06:30) shift at ~22:30ish local time.
There is conflicting information on which air traffic controller was in charge of operations on the ground.
The controllers at the time were dealing with another emergency on the ground. So there was a heavy workload on controllers who were also working multiple positions. NTSB cautions about talking about "controller distraction" as they were doing their job.
The controllers were doing combined positions since it was the midnight shift. This is the standard operating procedure for a lot of airports, including Newark. (See other #ChillyATCAdventures posts). The chairwoman has concerns about this nationwide common practice and so do I.
Conflicting reports on how many certified ATCs were in the facility overall. ATCs are supposed to take periodic breaks and be relieved by another controller.
The truck did not have a transponder to report its location. The airport did have airport surface detection equipment (ASDE-X) but the ground radar did not alert since the proximity of multiple ARFF trucks caused the system to have low confidence.
The automatic runway status lights were operational and indicated it was not clear to cross the runway
Chairwoman Homendy is awesome, as usual
@chillybot @paul_ipv6 Thank you!
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Okay I watched the second NTSB press briefing twice yesterday and have some juicy deets to dish out for you fine folks. Some of this was previously available/self evident but I wanted to wait a bit for the NTSB to do its thing. Here we go
Longer post so maybe bookmark and read later. First off, as the chairwoman succinctly emphasized: If a airline crash happens, many things likely went wrong. Flying is so safe because it has defense in depth built in. I personally would like to say we must resist the very natural desire to focus on "okay, who f'ed up". This is a search for the truth.
The controller clearly at least twice told the truck to stop before the crash
Two controllers were in the air traffic control tower cab (in layman's terms, the top most part of the tower with windows where the active ATCs oversee things and work) at the time. They had just gone on duty for the "midnight" (22:30-06:30) shift at ~22:30ish local time.
There is conflicting information on which air traffic controller was in charge of operations on the ground.
The controllers at the time were dealing with another emergency on the ground. So there was a heavy workload on controllers who were also working multiple positions. NTSB cautions about talking about "controller distraction" as they were doing their job.
The controllers were doing combined positions since it was the midnight shift. This is the standard operating procedure for a lot of airports, including Newark. (See other #ChillyATCAdventures posts). The chairwoman has concerns about this nationwide common practice and so do I.
Conflicting reports on how many certified ATCs were in the facility overall. ATCs are supposed to take periodic breaks and be relieved by another controller.
The truck did not have a transponder to report its location. The airport did have airport surface detection equipment (ASDE-X) but the ground radar did not alert since the proximity of multiple ARFF trucks caused the system to have low confidence.
The automatic runway status lights were operational and indicated it was not clear to cross the runway
Chairwoman Homendy is awesome, as usual
@chillybot @paul_ipv6 Meanwhile in cybersecurity we get reports like “scattered spider vished the mfa and then laterelled and no one could have foreseen it.” Cc @boblord @wendynather
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@chillybot @paul_ipv6 Meanwhile in cybersecurity we get reports like “scattered spider vished the mfa and then laterelled and no one could have foreseen it.” Cc @boblord @wendynather
@adamshostack
Yupppp, exactly. Bring back the CSRB! Aviation makes me jealous. We as an industry have much to learn from them.
@paul_ipv6 @boblord @wendynather -
@chillybot @paul_ipv6 Thank you!
@adamshostack
Of course! Thanks for the thanks
@paul_ipv6 -
Okay I watched the second NTSB press briefing twice yesterday and have some juicy deets to dish out for you fine folks. Some of this was previously available/self evident but I wanted to wait a bit for the NTSB to do its thing. Here we go
Longer post so maybe bookmark and read later. First off, as the chairwoman succinctly emphasized: If a airline crash happens, many things likely went wrong. Flying is so safe because it has defense in depth built in. I personally would like to say we must resist the very natural desire to focus on "okay, who f'ed up". This is a search for the truth.
The controller clearly at least twice told the truck to stop before the crash
Two controllers were in the air traffic control tower cab (in layman's terms, the top most part of the tower with windows where the active ATCs oversee things and work) at the time. They had just gone on duty for the "midnight" (22:30-06:30) shift at ~22:30ish local time.
There is conflicting information on which air traffic controller was in charge of operations on the ground.
The controllers at the time were dealing with another emergency on the ground. So there was a heavy workload on controllers who were also working multiple positions. NTSB cautions about talking about "controller distraction" as they were doing their job.
The controllers were doing combined positions since it was the midnight shift. This is the standard operating procedure for a lot of airports, including Newark. (See other #ChillyATCAdventures posts). The chairwoman has concerns about this nationwide common practice and so do I.
Conflicting reports on how many certified ATCs were in the facility overall. ATCs are supposed to take periodic breaks and be relieved by another controller.
The truck did not have a transponder to report its location. The airport did have airport surface detection equipment (ASDE-X) but the ground radar did not alert since the proximity of multiple ARFF trucks caused the system to have low confidence.
The automatic runway status lights were operational and indicated it was not clear to cross the runway
Chairwoman Homendy is awesome, as usual
Did you get any sense as to whether they'd be looking at the FAA's practice of granting anticipatory clearance as a potential factor?
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@adamshostack
Yupppp, exactly. Bring back the CSRB! Aviation makes me jealous. We as an industry have much to learn from them.
@paul_ipv6 @boblord @wendynather@chillybot @adamshostack @paul_ipv6 @boblord @wendynather another plug for another group doing yeoman's work... US Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board. I use these constantly to demonstrate how to explain VERY complicated problems to people clearly, and identify fundamental structural changes that can improve things.
-
Okay I watched the second NTSB press briefing twice yesterday and have some juicy deets to dish out for you fine folks. Some of this was previously available/self evident but I wanted to wait a bit for the NTSB to do its thing. Here we go
Longer post so maybe bookmark and read later. First off, as the chairwoman succinctly emphasized: If a airline crash happens, many things likely went wrong. Flying is so safe because it has defense in depth built in. I personally would like to say we must resist the very natural desire to focus on "okay, who f'ed up". This is a search for the truth.
The controller clearly at least twice told the truck to stop before the crash
Two controllers were in the air traffic control tower cab (in layman's terms, the top most part of the tower with windows where the active ATCs oversee things and work) at the time. They had just gone on duty for the "midnight" (22:30-06:30) shift at ~22:30ish local time.
There is conflicting information on which air traffic controller was in charge of operations on the ground.
The controllers at the time were dealing with another emergency on the ground. So there was a heavy workload on controllers who were also working multiple positions. NTSB cautions about talking about "controller distraction" as they were doing their job.
The controllers were doing combined positions since it was the midnight shift. This is the standard operating procedure for a lot of airports, including Newark. (See other #ChillyATCAdventures posts). The chairwoman has concerns about this nationwide common practice and so do I.
Conflicting reports on how many certified ATCs were in the facility overall. ATCs are supposed to take periodic breaks and be relieved by another controller.
The truck did not have a transponder to report its location. The airport did have airport surface detection equipment (ASDE-X) but the ground radar did not alert since the proximity of multiple ARFF trucks caused the system to have low confidence.
The automatic runway status lights were operational and indicated it was not clear to cross the runway
Chairwoman Homendy is awesome, as usual
@chillybot obviously I feel for everyone involved but I listened to the ATC recording afterwards and couldn't help feel like that ATC is going to fully blame themselves.
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@chillybot @adamshostack @paul_ipv6 @boblord @wendynather another plug for another group doing yeoman's work... US Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board. I use these constantly to demonstrate how to explain VERY complicated problems to people clearly, and identify fundamental structural changes that can improve things.
@petrillic @chillybot @adamshostack @paul_ipv6 @boblord Whoa, great callout!
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Did you get any sense as to whether they'd be looking at the FAA's practice of granting anticipatory clearance as a potential factor?
@DaveMWilburn
To explain for others, anticipatory clearance in this case refers to the practice of essentially preventing the runway from being used by anyone other than the plane cleared to land. ATCs in the US do not currently do this while a lot of Europe does.Regarding the briefing, I do not believe this specifically was discussed. That being said yesterday was the first full day of investigation and I think the NTSB will likely look into it.
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@DaveMWilburn
To explain for others, anticipatory clearance in this case refers to the practice of essentially preventing the runway from being used by anyone other than the plane cleared to land. ATCs in the US do not currently do this while a lot of Europe does.Regarding the briefing, I do not believe this specifically was discussed. That being said yesterday was the first full day of investigation and I think the NTSB will likely look into it.
@chillybot I was under the impression that "anticipatory clearance" is an American FAA practice, unusual elsewhere in the world, of granting clearance to inbound aircraft before the runway is clear, in anticipation of any preceding aircraft and other obstacles clearing the runway before their arrival. Am I wrong?
