穷则独善其身， 达则兼济天下
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穷则独善其身， 达则兼济天下
When you are poor, take care of your soul; when you are rich, take care of the world. — Mengzi (Mencius)
@0xabad1dea "soul" is quite a bit of creative license there
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@0xabad1dea "soul" is quite a bit of creative license there
@teohhanhui I don’t use “soul” in a religious sense (I am an atheist) but just as an elegant word for one’s inner self; I considered “take care of yourself” but decided that sounds too focused on food, shelter etc when I believe what is meant is making sure that the thoughts, actions etc of your 身 self are 善 good, no matter how bad the circumstances
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@teohhanhui I don’t use “soul” in a religious sense (I am an atheist) but just as an elegant word for one’s inner self; I considered “take care of yourself” but decided that sounds too focused on food, shelter etc when I believe what is meant is making sure that the thoughts, actions etc of your 身 self are 善 good, no matter how bad the circumstances
@0xabad1dea Just my personal opinion, but even from a non-religious perspective, I think "soul" was not really what they meant. But it's hard to convey this across cultural differences...
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@0xabad1dea Just my personal opinion, but even from a non-religious perspective, I think "soul" was not really what they meant. But it's hard to convey this across cultural differences...
@0xabad1dea I'd maybe say "hone your morality", but I'm not sure that's correct too...
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穷则独善其身， 达则兼济天下
When you are poor, take care of your soul; when you are rich, take care of the world. — Mengzi (Mencius)
@0xabad1dea Ah, Mencius, I love that big old softie!
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@teohhanhui I don’t use “soul” in a religious sense (I am an atheist) but just as an elegant word for one’s inner self; I considered “take care of yourself” but decided that sounds too focused on food, shelter etc when I believe what is meant is making sure that the thoughts, actions etc of your 身 self are 善 good, no matter how bad the circumstances
@0xabad1dea @teohhanhui I agree, "soul" is a bit of a stretch but an interesting translation, in contrast to a merely correct one (see Boodberg's Laozi
), has to put its foot down and not just split the distance between the source and target language. Particularly when the distance is as big as between classical Chinese and English. -
@0xabad1dea @teohhanhui I agree, "soul" is a bit of a stretch but an interesting translation, in contrast to a merely correct one (see Boodberg's Laozi
), has to put its foot down and not just split the distance between the source and target language. Particularly when the distance is as big as between classical Chinese and English.@0xabad1dea @teohhanhui Although I'm probably mischaracterising Boodberg, he'd probably say that his only concern was producing an extremely correct translation. (I think, I'm way out of my comfort zone here...)
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穷则独善其身， 达则兼济天下
When you are poor, take care of your soul; when you are rich, take care of the world. — Mengzi (Mencius)
@0xabad1dea 身 as soul? Is there something in a commentary I missed?
I would add - I do really like the quote as a standalone sentiment.
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@0xabad1dea @teohhanhui Although I'm probably mischaracterising Boodberg, he'd probably say that his only concern was producing an extremely correct translation. (I think, I'm way out of my comfort zone here...)
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@0xabad1dea 身 as soul? Is there something in a commentary I missed?
I would add - I do really like the quote as a standalone sentiment.
@BoysenberryCider 身 has a most literal meaning of “body”, a more abstract meaning of “the self,” and an even more abstract meaning of one’s moral nature. So if we are 善-ing “gooding” -> bettering our 身 self/moral nature, in a way that is under our control even when we are poor and destitute, then to me, describing that as taking care of (tending, cultivating, whatever) your soul feels natural and idiomatic
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@BoysenberryCider 身 has a most literal meaning of “body”, a more abstract meaning of “the self,” and an even more abstract meaning of one’s moral nature. So if we are 善-ing “gooding” -> bettering our 身 self/moral nature, in a way that is under our control even when we are poor and destitute, then to me, describing that as taking care of (tending, cultivating, whatever) your soul feels natural and idiomatic
@0xabad1dea thanks for that. I knew it as body and self, 'moral nature' is new to me. I spent very little time reading Confucian or adjacent texts, so I was wondering if this maybe was a term of art or something.
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