I'm a little concerned about the general tech attitude towards the Mozilla bug findings.
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I'm a little concerned about the general tech attitude towards the Mozilla bug findings. Yes, I'm an AI hater, so add that to the biases, but that's not really the point here.
People seem excited about the fact that Mythos was used to find a bunch of security bugs in Firefox, which is cool:
Behind the Scenes Hardening Firefox with Claude Mythos Preview – Mozilla Hacks - the Web developer blog
New details about what we found, and how agentic harnesses are now able to reproduce real bugs and dismiss false positives.
Mozilla Hacks – the Web developer blog (hacks.mozilla.org)
However, the general attitude seems to be that devs can keep pushing for more new things because some AI system will catch the bugs for them. But to me, there should be more concern about how there were so many previously unknown unfixed bugs in Firefox to begin with. These findings should be a cause for concern and give pause to evaluate how so many security bugs make it to prod. And I'm not just talking about Firefox, everyone should be learning from each other in this space.
If nothing else, people celebrating the LLM-fueled bug findings should be recognizing just how much harm the whole Move Fast and Break Shit approach really creates rather than allowing the LLMs to be the excuse to move faster and break more shit.
@cR0w This reminds me of the story about the plane that returned with bullet holes in a war, and survivorship bias.
Edit: To my surprise, this example features prominently on the related Wikipedia page:
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@FritzAdalis @cR0w sure but having lived through it several times makes it easier to spot the next time it comes around
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@cR0w and burning down the engineering folks for the benefit of the sales and marketing folks.
in 2002 when i worked at websense, the sales department would often sell shit that didnt exist, and tech support got stuck being the folks to tell the people they were lied to, when they went searching for the features that didnt exist.
this is exactly the same thing, but a larger scale
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@JessTheUnstill @cR0w this all seems to me like ai propoganda to try to sell ai to people who dont want it, and despite people saying 'fuck this, no', they ignore people and just do their thing
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@JessTheUnstill @cR0w this all seems to me like ai propoganda to try to sell ai to people who dont want it, and despite people saying 'fuck this, no', they ignore people and just do their thing
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@JessTheUnstill @cR0w im pretty sure thats intentional. everyone recently learned about the 'flood the zone' tactic and is now just buttonmashing it and rubberstamping it everywhere
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@JessTheUnstill @cR0w im pretty sure thats intentional. everyone recently learned about the 'flood the zone' tactic and is now just buttonmashing it and rubberstamping it everywhere
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@Viss Yeah, that's definitely an ongoing thing in plenty of security orgs even. Some of them you may have heard of. In fact, they may even be on Mastodon right meow.
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@FuturisticRobert @cR0w yes - they post on twitter, and the content here is one-way. they post here, but are unconcerned with replies or any audience here
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@cR0w This reminds me of the story about the plane that returned with bullet holes in a war, and survivorship bias.
Edit: To my surprise, this example features prominently on the related Wikipedia page:
@mahryekuh @cR0w trying this one someone who's never seen it before is an eye opener for sure.
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@FuturisticRobert @cR0w yes - they post on twitter, and the content here is one-way. they post here, but are unconcerned with replies or any audience here
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I'm a little concerned about the general tech attitude towards the Mozilla bug findings. Yes, I'm an AI hater, so add that to the biases, but that's not really the point here.
People seem excited about the fact that Mythos was used to find a bunch of security bugs in Firefox, which is cool:
Behind the Scenes Hardening Firefox with Claude Mythos Preview – Mozilla Hacks - the Web developer blog
New details about what we found, and how agentic harnesses are now able to reproduce real bugs and dismiss false positives.
Mozilla Hacks – the Web developer blog (hacks.mozilla.org)
However, the general attitude seems to be that devs can keep pushing for more new things because some AI system will catch the bugs for them. But to me, there should be more concern about how there were so many previously unknown unfixed bugs in Firefox to begin with. These findings should be a cause for concern and give pause to evaluate how so many security bugs make it to prod. And I'm not just talking about Firefox, everyone should be learning from each other in this space.
If nothing else, people celebrating the LLM-fueled bug findings should be recognizing just how much harm the whole Move Fast and Break Shit approach really creates rather than allowing the LLMs to be the excuse to move faster and break more shit.
@cR0w tbf some of those bugs seems to be really tricky to find. Impressive.
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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@cR0w tbf some of those bugs seems to be really tricky to find. Impressive.
@troed The fact that they're tricky bugs to find supports my point that they should be using the findings to adjust engineering and dev efforts, not just bragging about their fancy new safety net.
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I'm a little concerned about the general tech attitude towards the Mozilla bug findings. Yes, I'm an AI hater, so add that to the biases, but that's not really the point here.
People seem excited about the fact that Mythos was used to find a bunch of security bugs in Firefox, which is cool:
Behind the Scenes Hardening Firefox with Claude Mythos Preview – Mozilla Hacks - the Web developer blog
New details about what we found, and how agentic harnesses are now able to reproduce real bugs and dismiss false positives.
Mozilla Hacks – the Web developer blog (hacks.mozilla.org)
However, the general attitude seems to be that devs can keep pushing for more new things because some AI system will catch the bugs for them. But to me, there should be more concern about how there were so many previously unknown unfixed bugs in Firefox to begin with. These findings should be a cause for concern and give pause to evaluate how so many security bugs make it to prod. And I'm not just talking about Firefox, everyone should be learning from each other in this space.
If nothing else, people celebrating the LLM-fueled bug findings should be recognizing just how much harm the whole Move Fast and Break Shit approach really creates rather than allowing the LLMs to be the excuse to move faster and break more shit.
@cR0w you being an AI hater is an admirable trait
all these chatbots pretending to be Artificial General Intelligence to milk us for profit are a blight on our lives
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@cR0w This reminds me of the story about the plane that returned with bullet holes in a war, and survivorship bias.
Edit: To my surprise, this example features prominently on the related Wikipedia page:
@mahryekuh @cR0w this is also the canonical “trans women are so resilient!” picture btw
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I'm a little concerned about the general tech attitude towards the Mozilla bug findings. Yes, I'm an AI hater, so add that to the biases, but that's not really the point here.
People seem excited about the fact that Mythos was used to find a bunch of security bugs in Firefox, which is cool:
Behind the Scenes Hardening Firefox with Claude Mythos Preview – Mozilla Hacks - the Web developer blog
New details about what we found, and how agentic harnesses are now able to reproduce real bugs and dismiss false positives.
Mozilla Hacks – the Web developer blog (hacks.mozilla.org)
However, the general attitude seems to be that devs can keep pushing for more new things because some AI system will catch the bugs for them. But to me, there should be more concern about how there were so many previously unknown unfixed bugs in Firefox to begin with. These findings should be a cause for concern and give pause to evaluate how so many security bugs make it to prod. And I'm not just talking about Firefox, everyone should be learning from each other in this space.
If nothing else, people celebrating the LLM-fueled bug findings should be recognizing just how much harm the whole Move Fast and Break Shit approach really creates rather than allowing the LLMs to be the excuse to move faster and break more shit.
@cR0w that doesn't even address the elephant in the room that they didn't test firefox. They tested a javascript engine harness with no security hardening features enabled whatsoever, and that out of the hundreds of the bugs found, like 99% of them used the same two exploit primatives. I'm so fucking tired of AI.
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@cR0w that doesn't even address the elephant in the room that they didn't test firefox. They tested a javascript engine harness with no security hardening features enabled whatsoever, and that out of the hundreds of the bugs found, like 99% of them used the same two exploit primatives. I'm so fucking tired of AI.
@da_667 You're correct. I avoided that whole line of thought this time because I think that my point was valid for AI lovers and haters alike so I didn't want people to ignore it as just more hate or something.
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@mahryekuh @cR0w this is also the canonical “trans women are so resilient!” picture btw
@crowbriarhexe @cR0w I didn’t know that
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@cR0w because people dont fact check. people are lazy. if someone popular says a thing, people dont think twice, they just write that shit to disk in their brain and it becomes fact to them.
and its fucking horrible. and ive seen it before, on a bunch of topics.
@Viss @cR0w But finding bugs is like 1% of the job right? turning them into something you can use on the other hand... Did they do any of that? I've yet to see it. I'll bet not. Surely if there was even one decent one we'd be sick by now hearing about it. I honestly don't think it is bias. It's that learned gut feeling you got from reading irc logs: PoC||GTFO right?
I'm sure the mozdevs are delighted about the "make work day" shit rolling down their hill.
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@Viss @cR0w But finding bugs is like 1% of the job right? turning them into something you can use on the other hand... Did they do any of that? I've yet to see it. I'll bet not. Surely if there was even one decent one we'd be sick by now hearing about it. I honestly don't think it is bias. It's that learned gut feeling you got from reading irc logs: PoC||GTFO right?
I'm sure the mozdevs are delighted about the "make work day" shit rolling down their hill.
