Good morning!
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Hello, @brentsimmons, thanks for joining us for today’s interview. Over the course of your career, what beliefs about software development have you changed your mind about?
#interview@Doomscroll The main thing is my understanding of what makes for high quality apps. I keep learning that there is another higher level of quality and at the same time learning how to recognize it and figuring out a path to getting there. And I learn how critical this striving is, not just for the health of the app but for my own spiritual health.
That's not to say that my code is so great.
I’m in the midst of fixing a bunch of bugs and dealing with tech debt in NetNewsWire. Lots to improve! -
@Doomscroll I am curious to hear @brentsimmons share the spark story for NetNewsWire, what spurned him to create the first version? What were you doing with RSS at the time? I recall before seeing his app I was using Bloglines.
@cogdog @Doomscroll I was working at UserLand Software, on Frontier. I was lead developer of the blogging system Manila. Dave Winer, UserLand owner and CEO, was an RSS and blogging pioneer, and I was along for the ride.
Once I left, in early 2002, I wanted to do something with RSS — there were, due to our efforts, thousands of blogs then with RSS feeds.
I also wanted to write my first Cocoa app, and that ended up being MacNewsWire, which was a tiny thing which led to NetNewsWire.
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@cogdog @Doomscroll I was working at UserLand Software, on Frontier. I was lead developer of the blogging system Manila. Dave Winer, UserLand owner and CEO, was an RSS and blogging pioneer, and I was along for the ride.
Once I left, in early 2002, I wanted to do something with RSS — there were, due to our efforts, thousands of blogs then with RSS feeds.
I also wanted to write my first Cocoa app, and that ended up being MacNewsWire, which was a tiny thing which led to NetNewsWire.
@brentsimmons @Doomscroll Nice. I am sure I heard about NetNewsWire from @dnorman at University of Calgary. We did some talks for educators in 2003 called "Whats the Fuss About RSS?" run from a wiki https://cogdogblog.com/2003/06/whats-the/
demoing how to integrate syndicated content into learning management systems.
The wiki is archived, there's an interesting list of other aggretors from the paleo era.
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@Doomscroll The main thing is my understanding of what makes for high quality apps. I keep learning that there is another higher level of quality and at the same time learning how to recognize it and figuring out a path to getting there. And I learn how critical this striving is, not just for the health of the app but for my own spiritual health.
That's not to say that my code is so great.
I’m in the midst of fixing a bunch of bugs and dealing with tech debt in NetNewsWire. Lots to improve!@brentsimmons How do you recognize that next level of quality when you encounter it? What are the signs that tell you an app, or a piece of code, has reached that higher level?
You mentioned that striving for quality affects your spiritual health. What is it about software craftsmanship that makes it feel that way?
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@cogdog @Doomscroll I was working at UserLand Software, on Frontier. I was lead developer of the blogging system Manila. Dave Winer, UserLand owner and CEO, was an RSS and blogging pioneer, and I was along for the ride.
Once I left, in early 2002, I wanted to do something with RSS — there were, due to our efforts, thousands of blogs then with RSS feeds.
I also wanted to write my first Cocoa app, and that ended up being MacNewsWire, which was a tiny thing which led to NetNewsWire.
@brentsimmons @cogdog Did MacNewsWire start as a serious product idea, or was it more like a small experiment that unexpectedly grew into something bigger?
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@brentsimmons @Doomscroll Nice. I am sure I heard about NetNewsWire from @dnorman at University of Calgary. We did some talks for educators in 2003 called "Whats the Fuss About RSS?" run from a wiki https://cogdogblog.com/2003/06/whats-the/
demoing how to integrate syndicated content into learning management systems.
The wiki is archived, there's an interesting list of other aggretors from the paleo era.
@brentsimmons @Doomscroll @dnorman I found this ~2003 screenshot of some of my NetNewsWire feeds --that's your blog highlighted @dnorman !! Trackbacks and Learning Objects FTW.
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@brentsimmons How do you recognize that next level of quality when you encounter it? What are the signs that tell you an app, or a piece of code, has reached that higher level?
You mentioned that striving for quality affects your spiritual health. What is it about software craftsmanship that makes it feel that way?
@Doomscroll That next level of quality is usually simpler, with fewer levels of indirection, and is very clear. It usually looks like what I call (in my head) “kindergarten code” — that is, it doesn't look at all special or especially good. Looks like it took no thought, as if it was the obvious code to write.
And, at the same time, I believe I’ve thought of all the corner cases and I know they’re all covered. I’m not just being optimistic.
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@brentsimmons @Doomscroll @dnorman I found this ~2003 screenshot of some of my NetNewsWire feeds --that's your blog highlighted @dnorman !! Trackbacks and Learning Objects FTW.
@cogdog @brentsimmons @Doomscroll love that old school Aqua interface!
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@Doomscroll That next level of quality is usually simpler, with fewer levels of indirection, and is very clear. It usually looks like what I call (in my head) “kindergarten code” — that is, it doesn't look at all special or especially good. Looks like it took no thought, as if it was the obvious code to write.
And, at the same time, I believe I’ve thought of all the corner cases and I know they’re all covered. I’m not just being optimistic.
@Doomscroll And then, later, sometimes I find out I’m wrong! There was a better, even more clear, way to do a thing. Or I thought I had all the corner cases covered, and I learn, usually from user reports, about something I hadn’t thought of.
It’s important not to be arrogant with software, because it will bite you and keep on biting you, no matter how many years of experience you have, no matter how good at it you think you’ve gotten!
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@Doomscroll And then, later, sometimes I find out I’m wrong! There was a better, even more clear, way to do a thing. Or I thought I had all the corner cases covered, and I learn, usually from user reports, about something I hadn’t thought of.
It’s important not to be arrogant with software, because it will bite you and keep on biting you, no matter how many years of experience you have, no matter how good at it you think you’ve gotten!
@Doomscroll I call it spiritual, but I don’t know if it’s really that, but it *feels* like it.
We can choose what our purpose in life is, and I think most people choose to make the world better, however they define that. Taking care of friends and family, for one thing, for sure, and of themselves (so they don’t burden others unnecessarily).
Continued on next post…
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@Doomscroll I call it spiritual, but I don’t know if it’s really that, but it *feels* like it.
We can choose what our purpose in life is, and I think most people choose to make the world better, however they define that. Taking care of friends and family, for one thing, for sure, and of themselves (so they don’t burden others unnecessarily).
Continued on next post…
@Doomscroll I think that people who make things have a sense that doing it right, to the very best of their ability, without cutting corners, is the path to a profound respect for other people, which we all need (and which seems to be in such short supply these days).
It’s also the road to gratitude, to telling the universe we are grateful to be alive and grateful for humanity, and we want to contribute our most inspired and careful work so we can say thank you, over and over.
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@brentsimmons @Doomscroll @dnorman I found this ~2003 screenshot of some of my NetNewsWire feeds --that's your blog highlighted @dnorman !! Trackbacks and Learning Objects FTW.
@cogdog @NetNewsWire @brentsimmons @Doomscroll @dnorman Looks lickable to me!
I always liked the pinstripes.
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@brentsimmons @cogdog Did MacNewsWire start as a serious product idea, or was it more like a small experiment that unexpectedly grew into something bigger?
@Doomscroll @cogdog MacNewsWire was practice and I knew it was practice at the time.
It grew into NetNewsWire, which I knew would be my first commercial app — and I expected it to be unsuccessful, but I was obsessed with it, so I had to do it first before going on to the apps that I thought would actually make some money.
I never got to those other apps. I don’t even remember what my ideas were at the time.
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@brentsimmons @Doomscroll @dnorman I found this ~2003 screenshot of some of my NetNewsWire feeds --that's your blog highlighted @dnorman !! Trackbacks and Learning Objects FTW.
@cogdog @Doomscroll @dnorman @NetNewsWire I never got more compliments on NetNewsWire being beautiful than back in those days!
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