The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs.
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The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs. Even for an engineer technology comes second at best.
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The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs. Even for an engineer technology comes second at best.
@tante “In the soul of a true engineer, the only thing that really matters is being allowed to tinker in piece on something until it works” — attributed to a Lockheed Skunkworks engineer
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@tante “In the soul of a true engineer, the only thing that really matters is being allowed to tinker in piece on something until it works” — attributed to a Lockheed Skunkworks engineer
@olyerickson That's a tinkerer. Tinkering is fun but a different thing IMO
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The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs. Even for an engineer technology comes second at best.
@tante Calling any of the turn it off and on again engineering is an insult to engineers.
When I am crossing a bridge, someone had run the math to prove that it won't collapse on its own or from an earthquake.
But with software we don't have a single clue what will happen let alone to how reproduce issues.
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The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs. Even for an engineer technology comes second at best.
@tante Just as the main purpose of banks should be to finance the real economy and not to make a few people super-rich.
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R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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@tante Calling any of the turn it off and on again engineering is an insult to engineers.
When I am crossing a bridge, someone had run the math to prove that it won't collapse on its own or from an earthquake.
But with software we don't have a single clue what will happen let alone to how reproduce issues.
Then you are just throwing things together until it seems to work for some ill defined goal and conditions, not engineering software.
Can be fun, but single use only. -
The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs. Even for an engineer technology comes second at best.
@tante The job of the engineer is to meet the specification. Period.
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@tante The job of the engineer is to meet the specification. Period.
@Wyatt_H_Knott @tante and to make sure the specification being developed is as close to the requirements as possible.
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@olyerickson That's a tinkerer. Tinkering is fun but a different thing IMO
@tante @olyerickson Tinkerers specifications are intrinsic, which is the essence of joy.
Professional engineers may also enjoy their work mostly while still being bound to extrinsic specifications, which sometimes are frustrating as they are much harder to comply with.
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The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs. Even for an engineer technology comes second at best.
@tante In my experience, it's non-engineers who tend to focus on the tech and may need to be gently guided back to the problem they're trying to solve, from which a lot of engineers will look first for a simpler, less technical, or more general solution.
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@tante Calling any of the turn it off and on again engineering is an insult to engineers.
When I am crossing a bridge, someone had run the math to prove that it won't collapse on its own or from an earthquake.
But with software we don't have a single clue what will happen let alone to how reproduce issues.
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@Wyatt_H_Knott @tante and to make sure the specification being developed is as close to the requirements as possible.
@Colman @tante Yes and no. As a working engineer, I got handed a spec. I was allowed to INTERPRET that spec to my advantage, but I was never allowed to modify it, because it was a customer document. So if the spec said "no pipe fittings here, with some exceptions" it was my job to make sure the exception was found and that it was justifiable. Which is how we got around stupid requirements. But mostly, we did what the spec said to do.
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@Colman @tante Yes and no. As a working engineer, I got handed a spec. I was allowed to INTERPRET that spec to my advantage, but I was never allowed to modify it, because it was a customer document. So if the spec said "no pipe fittings here, with some exceptions" it was my job to make sure the exception was found and that it was justifiable. Which is how we got around stupid requirements. But mostly, we did what the spec said to do.
@Wyatt_H_Knott but there was another engineer up the pipeline somewhere involved in developing that spec. I meant the gestalt "engineer".
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@Wyatt_H_Knott but there was another engineer up the pipeline somewhere involved in developing that spec. I meant the gestalt "engineer".
@Colman Probably not. The specs came from the contract. The contract came from the Navy. The Navy thinks they know what they want, so they are very detailed about their specs. It's why we don't deviate very much. Specifications are commercial contracts. They say "do they job according to such and such standard to produce X result." Maybe there was a smart engineer involved in producing the standard, or maybe a bunch of managers sat around with their heads up their asses justifying their jobs.
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@Wyatt_H_Knott but there was another engineer up the pipeline somewhere involved in developing that spec. I meant the gestalt "engineer".
@Colman Also, what KIND of engineer? Because if the sonar guy wrote the spec, but the pipe guy has to interpret it, you're getting a different result, guaranteed.
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The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs. Even for an engineer technology comes second at best.
@tante i love this thread.
only a bunch Of engineers would debate this great post. 
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@tante The job of the engineer is to meet the specification. Period.
@Wyatt_H_Knott @tante Perhaps for a junior engineering role, but I'd expect anyone in a more senior role to understand the context of the specification and the constraints that led to it, and where appropriate to discuss alternatives with the relevant stakeholders. With increasing seniority there should be a widening scope of awareness.
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@Wyatt_H_Knott @tante Perhaps for a junior engineering role, but I'd expect anyone in a more senior role to understand the context of the specification and the constraints that led to it, and where appropriate to discuss alternatives with the relevant stakeholders. With increasing seniority there should be a widening scope of awareness.
@GerardThornley @tante Sure, yes. And for sure I was able to have discussions with contract supervisors where we could suggest modifications to the specification requirements in certain limited scope cases. But it was always a fight, and often the outcome rested on a political consideration rather than a purely technical one. The truth is there are MANY ways to do most things and what we were doing was picking one that jibed with the rest of our manufacturing ethic.
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The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs. Even for an engineer technology comes second at best.
@tante [a gif of the Team Fortress engineer playing on a banjo]
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The job of engineers is not to deploy some technology but to build robust, reliable and sustainable (in all meanings of that word) solutions for real world problems based on requirements directly derived from people's needs. Even for an engineer technology comes second at best.
@tante Sun Tsu's "The Art of War", specifically the section on Tactics, is surprisingly relevant in Software Engineering. You have a powerful army. Don't ask it to do something it can't do
