the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me.
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn Attaching a used BIC pen to a vibrator would be more similar to using a slop extruder, and yet more creative.
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn Also if you're using a word processor you're doing the same thing people did with a goose feather back in the day. It's more convenient, but you still think what you want to write and you write the words. You get a spellchecker and fonts and editing and formatting and a bunch of tools, but you still need to think what sentence you want and write that sentence.
Using AI is a categorically different thing.
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
When I started reading Marko Kloos I remember that he wrote his books in longhand with a good pen.
He has switched to text processing now but he still keeps a warm relationship with good pens https://www.markokloos.com/?cat=13
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@Illuminatus @mntmn Same. Heck, I use quill pens sometimes for my calligraphy.
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn :glances down: wait, I wasn't supposed to be writing code with a fountain pen?
I find it efficient for code architecture tasks honestly. -
@mntmn these arguments are forever tainted because they come from the direction of optimization of 'work', classifies art as 'work', and establishes a worth-ness to it in monetary value rather than value to humanity. it is terrifying because it lays bare how our system of governance and economies goes against the very concept of being a human
@lynn @mntmn So much THIS.
"But you can create so much more STUFF in a much shorter time with AI!!!11!"
... Right, but what kind of "stuff" are we talking about? The next shitty social network? Some kind of "helper" that makes a stupid process easier to deal with, instead of fixing the stupid process? The millionth crappy rip-off of some game? Anything else that nobody needs, except for the person trying to make a quick buck with it?
Even if their brains are only capable of thinking in capitalist mantra the AI dudes could at least stop telling others that their (shitty) version of the future is inevitable and the one and only thing that will exist in "a few years". Even if the bubble doesn't burst spectacularly, there will always be a market for human made stuff, because some of us don't just want more shit, but to cherish the thought and effort someone has put into something. -
the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn The fountain pen equivalent in coding would be handwritten assembly
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn funnily enough I would reply to that statement: well yeah started to used them recently! (and being left-handed is trickier too
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Yeah this is the usual argument they say. But the problem is that if something is an innovation doesn't mean that it has to be good. And these "stochastic parrots" will do more harm than good. Making people lose basic skills, killing creativity, and vomiting a huge amount of mediocre quality products (polluted with wrong content/information).... -
the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn It's the invasion in to my own space. I've played, and honestly, I'm in a similar space to yourself. I mostly code in C#, and have a NeoVim based workflow. I'll dip in to Visual Studio for legacy Framework projects. My workflow is /efficient/, and allows me to review my own work, and that of my co-workers. It lets me breathe and think. It uses LSP (primarily Roslyn) and a bunch of plugins to flow nicely.
Occassionaly I'm asked how my setup works, and I'll happily talk it through. It's not that complicated, and someone will play with it for a bit, and may find things they like, or not. Again, their choice. On a one on one basis, we can have reasonable discussions, usually with a coffee. There's been learnings on both sides.
For work, we run rules that you're responsible for your own commits, wherever that code comes from. That was true before, and it's true now. So far, it's held up. We had a couple of small incidents, and some re-education was applied.
But by Gods, the minute that I pop my head above the general internet parapet and say I'm /not/ using an AI driven workflow, as a personal preference, you realise how much you're against the grain.
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn the thing is a pen is still a pen.
Yes a ball point pen is easier than a fountain pen (well unless the fountain pen has its own reservoir which some do).
But a pen is still the same kind of tool.
It is like gcc vs tcc vs llvm/clang vs icc vs suncc. They are all compilers but some easier to use and some are stuck in without a reservoir.
Also a writing utensils is similar but in a different language like clang vs flang or c vs Ada.But llms are not the same as a compiler. Ao it is not even comparable.
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn if I remember correctly, neal stephenson is hand-writing his 800 pages tomes.
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn I take all my technical notes, to-do lists, etc. in fountain pen while I write code, it's a surprisingly good pairing. Writing by hand makes me think differently than writing on a computer. Just because a newer tool exists, doesn't mean the old one is automatically obsolete! That's just bizarre tech-bro brain.
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn ... Yeah, my partner and I definitely _do_ use fashion pens to write. They are so much better than ballpoint if you take care of them.
And you can look at woodworking to see that new, fancy tools don't immediately make old hand tools obsolete.
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the argument "but you're also no longer using a fountain pen to write" against hand-written code is silly to me. i think close to 100% of people would rather read a short story written in fountain pen by octavia e. butler or william gibson than something that a rando ai-prompted? they could even take their time, why would it need to be rushed?
@mntmn i don't use a fountain pen, but i do often use a pen. often when i want to make sense of something or learn something new, as i find writing helps me to connect thoughts, and the extra time taken to physically note something down often helps me remember it. i may be able to type faster with a keyboard, but that presumes that the goal of writing is to output as many words as possible and not an intrinsic human behaviour
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