The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
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@manlycoffee I don’t think an ableist framing of the issue is necessary or helpful; there are serious issues that warrant a much much deeper look:
* was the office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada consulted and what was their position?
* the framing of the issue — the proposal voted for at the Liberal Party convention describes a specific approach, without looking at the root cause. What other approaches were considered?
* Were the downstream effects of the suggested approach considered, and what issues have been raised?
* Why was this issue voted on in a party convention, without an input from general public, esp. without input from people working in adjacent fields?I seriously doubt the Office of the Privacy Commissioner was ever consulted or involved in what is already a clusterfuck, which should be a huge scandal and a wtf in general.
this is a highly thoughtful response. Thank you.
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
@manlycoffee The PISA 2022 educational survey considers Estonian school students have the best school results in Europe & are among the world's
8! 
🧠 
https://www.educationestonia.org/estonias-pisa-2022-results-consistently-among-the-worlds-best/The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) by the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development)
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most of us are concerned about the downstream privacy impact being much worse than what "harm" that social media has on young people.
Not to mention, even then, another pushback to callout is that people much older are also not better off, so how do we address those?
@manlycoffee There are many things to consider and change. The will to do so is only slowly kindling.
Addiction of doom-scrolling is largely age independent I believe. Trivial to add increasing pauses as you scroll.
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@manlycoffee There are many things to consider and change. The will to do so is only slowly kindling.
Addiction of doom-scrolling is largely age independent I believe. Trivial to add increasing pauses as you scroll.
Yeah, I proposed that before we ban social media by age, instead, let's have a blanket ban on auto-scrolling videos.
This would probably capture the "harm" that we want the under 16s to be shielded from, but older individuals are not immune from it, so they'd also benefit from the ban.
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
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Yeah, a better wording would have been "must" rather than "should"
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
@manlycoffee Exactly what I was thinking also!
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
I think its a trap the argument,
you have to choose: ban or regulation.
I think both are needed.¿What is the psicological and social imperative to a kid for needing social media? Kids have other far more important imperatives: their rights to play, to socialize, health, education and healthy family and enviroment... not social media of #bigtech
Also, social media needs to be regulated, heavily. Socials #bigtechs creates adiction and anxiety for everyone.
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I think its a trap the argument,
you have to choose: ban or regulation.
I think both are needed.¿What is the psicological and social imperative to a kid for needing social media? Kids have other far more important imperatives: their rights to play, to socialize, health, education and healthy family and enviroment... not social media of #bigtech
Also, social media needs to be regulated, heavily. Socials #bigtechs creates adiction and anxiety for everyone.
Sal Rahman (@manlycoffee@techhub.social)
@NicelyManifest@mastodon.social most of us are concerned about the downstream privacy impact being much worse than what "harm" that social media has on young people. Not to mention, even then, another pushback to callout is that people much older are also not better off, so how do we address those?
TechHub (techhub.social)
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D drajt@fosstodon.org shared this topic
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
@manlycoffee Considering most efforts to "ban" tech platforms is really just a play at surveillance overreach, regulating the platforms themselves seems like a more logical step forward in the name of safety.
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Yeah, I proposed that before we ban social media by age, instead, let's have a blanket ban on auto-scrolling videos.
This would probably capture the "harm" that we want the under 16s to be shielded from, but older individuals are not immune from it, so they'd also benefit from the ban.
@manlycoffee Very much so. But expect the likes of Google to have control over politicians to protect the lucrative status quo. The categorically do not care that ad-pumping damages mental health.
But society also needs addressing - we have about 80% of people in Cardiff walking with visible device. Often head- and smart-phone. Cannot even tell them not to cross to avoid an approaching car as they cannot hear me.
Herd-justified anti-social habits.
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
@manlycoffee personally is from both. Internet is also kinda like drugs. Sure kids find there way. But there is also lot of sadness online doing also. Kids also meet offline other kids. If there vertification in place you can regulate big tech also.
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
@manlycoffee capitalism in general needs regulation and need to pay their fair share.
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
They would rather let corporations profit off our data than protect us by regulating them.
They will still know you have children. They will still know your children's ages. They will still know your children's preferences for everything you buy them.
When your kids age out, they will still have no privacy.
They will have no skills for dealing with or interacting with others.
But the tech giants will be rich.
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
@manlycoffee Ignorant proposal! Social media is a peril drug for the brain development. If there are age restrictions for some legal drugs like alcohol or cannabis, it must be the same restriction for the use of social media until a certain age. 16 is too early as the brain finishes its development by the age of 21.
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
@manlycoffee Yes, our European leaders still don't know the difference between cause and effect.
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@manlycoffee Ignorant proposal! Social media is a peril drug for the brain development. If there are age restrictions for some legal drugs like alcohol or cannabis, it must be the same restriction for the use of social media until a certain age. 16 is too early as the brain finishes its development by the age of 21.
@Hiltibrant @manlycoffee Yeah but showing a physical ID card to a teller is a very different proposal than the dystopian (and entirely ineffective) age verification systems. Kids have been bypassing web restrictions since time immemorial. How do you think we went to Newgrounds on school computers 15 or 20 years ago, because they let us? We just brought Firefox Portable onthumb drives, or went through proxies.
None of this has anything to do with protecting children. Politicians have been using that line to have their way forever, and they get away with it because it's a different set of parents each time and humanity collectively has a short memory (which is why it's currently 1939 again in the ol' US of A).
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The Parliament of Estonia is orders of magnitude smarter than whoever is in the Parliament of Canada (including Mark Carney).
"Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says"
Europe should regulate Big Tech instead of banning kids from social media, Estonia says
Banning kids from social media won’t work, as they “will find very quickly the ways to go around and to still use social media,” Estonian Education Minister Kristina Kallas said.
POLITICO (www.politico.eu)
@manlycoffee yep, but most European leaders are too scared to stand up to big tech.
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@Hiltibrant @manlycoffee Yeah but showing a physical ID card to a teller is a very different proposal than the dystopian (and entirely ineffective) age verification systems. Kids have been bypassing web restrictions since time immemorial. How do you think we went to Newgrounds on school computers 15 or 20 years ago, because they let us? We just brought Firefox Portable onthumb drives, or went through proxies.
None of this has anything to do with protecting children. Politicians have been using that line to have their way forever, and they get away with it because it's a different set of parents each time and humanity collectively has a short memory (which is why it's currently 1939 again in the ol' US of A).
@Hiltibrant @manlycoffee The other difference is that you can't take the ethanol out of liquor or the THC out of cannabis (well you can, but that defeats the purpose for the vast majority of users in both cases). Social media doesn't need to be the way it is, but another lesson we keep having to learn the hard way (which is why it's also currently 1929 in the ol' yadda yadda) is that businesses will go right up to the line, and maybe even quite a bit past it, so you have to regulate if you don't want them dumping PCBs in your local kiddy pool.
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@manlycoffee once again, Estonia leads the way on tech
…for better or worse; They do have internet-based voting there
