LLM advocates still don’t seem to be able to comprehend that ordering the machine not to ‘make stuff up’ doesn’t help.

[junkman@mastodon.social]

@benjamineskola nah, man. You do you, proceed with the dunking.

[nelson@wetdry.world]

@solonovamax @benjamineskola i feel like it's more that it just wasn't built to give out answers, it was trained not to answer truthfully and "understand" but to just come up with something that sounds kind of convincing

[aedius@lavraievie.social]

@skotchygut @benjamineskola

LLM are a Skinner Box.

[benjamineskola@hachyderm.io]

@Aedius yes, like... if you accept that this is just how they work, you might be able to use them productively for the limited tasks they're capable of doing at. But refusing to understand the way they work and then yelling at them about it is just embarrassing.

[benjamineskola@hachyderm.io]

@nelson @solonovamax no, it's not capable of understanding. it's not a thing that this sort of technology could do.

[nelson@wetdry.world]

@benjamineskola @solonovamax yeah it's just good at knowing what the next word is, so it can string something mathematically coherent

kind of like how "ai art" tends to be extremely generic looking because it quite literally aims to pick the most average in its dataset for a specific prompt

[benjamineskola@hachyderm.io]

@junkman like in all seriousness it's fine to have some degree of missing knowledge about how your car works, but if you believe that it's capable of avoiding collisions by itself and your method of reducing collisions is just to ask it to try harder, you'd be a danger to yourself and others.

I'm not asking people to have deep knowledge of the mathematics behind LLMs, but I do expect people who are actively advocating their adoption not to make up outright fantasies about how they work.

[michaelgemar@cosocial.ca]

@solonovamax @benjamineskola Exactly — IT DOESN’T THINK. It’s not a mind, but just a huge statistical matrix.

(And in top of that, don’t folks like this feel ashamed that their job has devolved to pleading with a mindless idiot genie, rather than writing deterministic code?)

[bloognoo@retro.pizza]

@benjamineskola
It's all halucinations, there's just a magical line where we don't mind the output on the one side and we do on the other. There is literally no distinction between the two

[benjamineskola@hachyderm.io]

@michaelgemar @solonovamax Yes precisely. An argument that a huge statistical matrix is useful for certain tasks is valid.

(I disagree. It seems bad at all the tasks people want to use it for, as well as wasteful and soul-destroying. But it’s at least valid.)

But pretending it’s doing something that it isn’t undermines any possibility of actual usefulness.

[benjamineskola@hachyderm.io]

@bloognoo yes, that’s exactly my point.

[gbargoud@masto.nyc]

@benjamineskola

Any LLM output that takes more than a few seconds of low mental effort to check (so anything more than a line or two of tab complete in a strongly typed coding language in an IDE with built in error underlining) makes me want to throw my computer out of the window.

I don't know how some people use it to generate a whole paragraph let alone multiple.

[mdione@en.osm.town]

@michaelgemar @solonovamax @benjamineskola I'm trying to convert my suddenly boss obsessed with our overlords pushing AI down our throats to at least use AI not as process but to at least write crappy but deterministic code

[michaelgemar@cosocial.ca]

@benjamineskola @solonovamax I’m sure that there is genuine utility in LLMs and the newer approaches to AI in general. But too many people are being led astray by LLMs intentional appearance of mentality so that they interact with them as people, as having understanding. That is wrong and risks terrible errors in the final product.

[sherapantsuit@mastodon.social]

@Aedius @benjamineskola language consists of two parts, the form and the sign

the form is the "tangible" part of the language, e.g. this text, or whatever soundwave physics bullshit is happening when we talk

the sign is the meaning, what you might visualize in your head when you read the word "cat"

LLMs only have access to form, so when the meaning of text is important (read: always), LLMs are not very useful

to this, promptfondlers always reply "but today is the worst it's ever gonna be"

[prietschka@mastodon.social]

@benjamineskola The problem with Obasanjo is he's utterly unprincipled and just chasing engagement/self-aggrandizement. His purpose for being in social spaces like Masto/Bluesky/X is to stroke his ego, so everything he does is just an act of public masturbation.

He's interested in self-aggrandizement and self-promotion, nothing more.

Which is why I use the descriptor "piece of shit" with regard to him.

[mushroom_man@infosec.exchange]

@junkman I see your car analogy and I raise you a slavery analogy: that, too, had “proved some degree of usefulness” for “some people very good at wielding it as a tool”.

And I bet you’d rather not know how it worked (works) if you were the one finding it handy for the benefits it provided you. Saying you don’t partake while loudly proclaiming its usefulness is not fooling anyone.

[beatpoet13@mastodon.social]

@benjamineskola
perhaps renaming them little lying malware might help ...

[benjamineskola@hachyderm.io]

@Beatpoet13 in all seriousness I don’t like the terminology of ‘lying’ here either. It implies intent.

It’s not a lie for the same reason that it’s not a hallucination; there’s no difference from the LLM’s perspective. It’s not capable of evaluating the truth-value of its output, much less intentionally producing untrue (or true) statements. It’s mere probability.

Responsible usage of these tools would involve mechanisms to increase the probability of the desired output, but pretending it’s capable of evaluating that itself will not help at all.

[linkplay@biplus.social]

@nelson @benjamineskola @solonovamax
yeah, i think my take from about a year ago still mostly holds up https://biplus.social/@linkplay/114828181247605258