I agree with SnoopJ here but I want to put a subtly different spin on this and make a somewhat more non-negotiable request of my audience.
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@glyph wait is that me or Bradley
@luis_in_brief OR ME -_- @glyph
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2. Is accepting the money going to create a situation where the charity now entirely *depends* on the donor, and may more subtly compromise its mission than in point 1?
It feels like this is another place where you should refuse, but in fact the opposite is true. If you have to take problematic money from one kinda-bad actor to keep operating, the best option here is to find a SECOND kinda-bad actor that also is not fully aligned with that first one, so there is a tension between them.
To put this more simply, *taking* the money is always a good thing. Now the bad actor has less money and the charity has more money, and presumably the world will be a better place for it. Of course it's never that simple, but the question that needs to be asked is, what are the *consequences* of taking the money. Are there strings attached? How bad are they?
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To put this more simply, *taking* the money is always a good thing. Now the bad actor has less money and the charity has more money, and presumably the world will be a better place for it. Of course it's never that simple, but the question that needs to be asked is, what are the *consequences* of taking the money. Are there strings attached? How bad are they?
@glyph sorry there are ALWAYS strings attached. the most obvious unwritten string: you want to appease the donor, so that they donate again
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To put this more simply, *taking* the money is always a good thing. Now the bad actor has less money and the charity has more money, and presumably the world will be a better place for it. Of course it's never that simple, but the question that needs to be asked is, what are the *consequences* of taking the money. Are there strings attached? How bad are they?
@glyph I'll never understand people who are in favor of Robin Hood but draw the line at the rich parting with their money willingly. Concerns should be addressed and I like your list of them, but yeah.
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To put this more simply, *taking* the money is always a good thing. Now the bad actor has less money and the charity has more money, and presumably the world will be a better place for it. Of course it's never that simple, but the question that needs to be asked is, what are the *consequences* of taking the money. Are there strings attached? How bad are they?
If you want charities to refuse "bad" donations, getting mad at the charity *at the moment of the donation* feels like a moment that has high emotional salience, but it's the wrong part of the process to raise objections effectively. But there are things you can do!
- Get involved with fundraising and find better donors (both small-dollar and big ones).
- Help with budgeting and fiscal management of the organization so they need fewer resources and can afford to refuse. -
@glyph something about this sort of reflex reminds me of leftist infighting over ideological purity. I guess it *is* ideological purity testing when you strip it down to brass tacks
anyway, +1, Don't Be A Dick
@SnoopJ @glyph I mean, perhaps as is unsurprising, I don't completely agree here?
I'll start off by saying that no, no one should harass over this (batman snapping gun dot jay pee gee). That said, Blender is definitely looking for tacit approval here, and I don't think silence is an appropriate response to that approval-seeking.
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@SnoopJ @glyph I mean, perhaps as is unsurprising, I don't completely agree here?
I'll start off by saying that no, no one should harass over this (batman snapping gun dot jay pee gee). That said, Blender is definitely looking for tacit approval here, and I don't think silence is an appropriate response to that approval-seeking.
@SnoopJ @glyph With respect to ideological purity, that's a much longer conversation, but I think that criticizing a tool for artists for endorsing a company founded on undermining artistic labor rights is pretty far on the "this is no longer infighting, you're no ally of mine — it's just fighting now" side of the line.
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The entire point of a charity — and many tech foundations[1] the Blender Foundation, the PSF, etc, are charities — is to take donations from people who have enough excess money that they have some available to donate, and to do something better with that money than the donor would have done with it.
I am sure that it is not news to you that *the kind of people who have enough extra money that they can give some away* in our society are not always going to be the most agreeable.
@glyph In a very broad sense outside of just tech, the purpose of charities is for people with excess money to buy control over if/how services reach people with insufficient money.
In an ideal world, charities would be illegal and we would fund these things publicly, with the source of the money (taxes on ppl with too much) completely divorced from decisions about how to spend it (made by genuinely democratic processes).
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@glyph sorry there are ALWAYS strings attached. the most obvious unwritten string: you want to appease the donor, so that they donate again
@aburka "of course it's never that simple"
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@glyph sorry there are ALWAYS strings attached. the most obvious unwritten string: you want to appease the donor, so that they donate again
@aburka @glyph yeah this is the one. The risk is that you take the money, increase spending because you have more money, and now you need this donor to give again so you do things that will make them happy. Maybe this can be mitigated by exclusively using money from certain donors for a contingency fund, and being disciplined about using it. I don't know.
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@aburka "of course it's never that simple"
@aburka Charities piss off donors all the time and donors fail to show up repeatedly whether or not they are pissed off. I agree that this string always exists but it is not always all that strong. For one thing, just like, totally hypothetically, the donor might be going to inevitably go bankrupt in a couple of years anyway because their input costs vastly exceed their revenues in a way which is unlikely to be addressed, and thus their long-term leverage might be extremely limited.
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@SnoopJ @glyph With respect to ideological purity, that's a much longer conversation, but I think that criticizing a tool for artists for endorsing a company founded on undermining artistic labor rights is pretty far on the "this is no longer infighting, you're no ally of mine — it's just fighting now" side of the line.
@SnoopJ @glyph None of that is to endorse harassment, again, but to be careful about also not endorsing silence of passivity. Blender endorsing Anthropic is wrong, and a fundamental betrayal of artistic labor, even aside from the specific problems of Anthropic being a Palantir collaborator.
I think it's important to criticize them for that, and to make those critiques visible to the foundation that made that decision.
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@SnoopJ @glyph I mean, perhaps as is unsurprising, I don't completely agree here?
I'll start off by saying that no, no one should harass over this (batman snapping gun dot jay pee gee). That said, Blender is definitely looking for tacit approval here, and I don't think silence is an appropriate response to that approval-seeking.
@xgranade I definitely agree that it's okay and even good that people are voicing their displeasure, but to @glyph's point, there are even more fruitful avenues: https://mastodon.social/@glyph/116484207353811439
In the context of Blender accepting money from Anthropic specifically, a lot of what bothers me and seems to resonate for other people too is that Blender is framing all this as being so excited to partner with Anthropic, and the implication that Blender agrees with Anthropic's self-description as "reliable" and amazing and blah blah
And *that* kind of thing—how an org interacts with sponsors, how partnerships are announced—is the kind of rolling org policy that gets changed by other means.
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@xgranade I definitely agree that it's okay and even good that people are voicing their displeasure, but to @glyph's point, there are even more fruitful avenues: https://mastodon.social/@glyph/116484207353811439
In the context of Blender accepting money from Anthropic specifically, a lot of what bothers me and seems to resonate for other people too is that Blender is framing all this as being so excited to partner with Anthropic, and the implication that Blender agrees with Anthropic's self-description as "reliable" and amazing and blah blah
And *that* kind of thing—how an org interacts with sponsors, how partnerships are announced—is the kind of rolling org policy that gets changed by other means.
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@SnoopJ @glyph None of that is to endorse harassment, again, but to be careful about also not endorsing silence of passivity. Blender endorsing Anthropic is wrong, and a fundamental betrayal of artistic labor, even aside from the specific problems of Anthropic being a Palantir collaborator.
I think it's important to criticize them for that, and to make those critiques visible to the foundation that made that decision.
@xgranade @SnoopJ I am not opposed to people voicing their displeasure and I understand the criticism. In this case, my own moral calculus is such that the level of endorsement received vs. the amount of dependency induced and the amount of reputational laundering provided is a worthwhile tradeoff. But there *IS* a tradeoff, and the net result could change dramatically, of course, like if Blender were to start shipping with a Claude Code integration OOTB.
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@aburka Charities piss off donors all the time and donors fail to show up repeatedly whether or not they are pissed off. I agree that this string always exists but it is not always all that strong. For one thing, just like, totally hypothetically, the donor might be going to inevitably go bankrupt in a couple of years anyway because their input costs vastly exceed their revenues in a way which is unlikely to be addressed, and thus their long-term leverage might be extremely limited.
@glyph well hypothetically, if the receiving org copy pasted the donor's marketing blurb with no commentary, one might suppose that they believe the hype and don't realize that the funding will dry up soon
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@SnoopJ @glyph With respect to ideological purity, that's a much longer conversation, but I think that criticizing a tool for artists for endorsing a company founded on undermining artistic labor rights is pretty far on the "this is no longer infighting, you're no ally of mine — it's just fighting now" side of the line.
@xgranade oh yes I totally agree that this specific instance *is* an ideological impurity thing. I think this is @glyph's point (1), i.e. that Blender as an organization has a moral imperative to align *against* The Machine That Steals Artists's Work
it *feels* more open-and-shut to me than the pretty-direct analogue where the PSF accepted a donation from Anthropic in January (even if thinking about it, the act of theft feels very comparable, which… I should unpack that some more)
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@xgranade I definitely agree that it's okay and even good that people are voicing their displeasure, but to @glyph's point, there are even more fruitful avenues: https://mastodon.social/@glyph/116484207353811439
In the context of Blender accepting money from Anthropic specifically, a lot of what bothers me and seems to resonate for other people too is that Blender is framing all this as being so excited to partner with Anthropic, and the implication that Blender agrees with Anthropic's self-description as "reliable" and amazing and blah blah
And *that* kind of thing—how an org interacts with sponsors, how partnerships are announced—is the kind of rolling org policy that gets changed by other means.
@SnoopJ @glyph A few things to that... yeah, it'd be better praxis to get involved with Blender before the bad decision was made and to help prevent that decision. No disagreement. I don't personally have the bandwidth to do that for every piece of software that artistic labor depends on, but it is in general better.
That said, I don't think that my failure to get involved with Blender in particular invalidates my criticism?
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@xgranade @SnoopJ I am not opposed to people voicing their displeasure and I understand the criticism. In this case, my own moral calculus is such that the level of endorsement received vs. the amount of dependency induced and the amount of reputational laundering provided is a worthwhile tradeoff. But there *IS* a tradeoff, and the net result could change dramatically, of course, like if Blender were to start shipping with a Claude Code integration OOTB.
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If you want charities to refuse "bad" donations, getting mad at the charity *at the moment of the donation* feels like a moment that has high emotional salience, but it's the wrong part of the process to raise objections effectively. But there are things you can do!
- Get involved with fundraising and find better donors (both small-dollar and big ones).
- Help with budgeting and fiscal management of the organization so they need fewer resources and can afford to refuse.@glyph Apologies, but I don't agree with either of you, and this is a rare bad take from you.
It's NEVER OK to accept gifts of any kind from groups of people who want to essentially dominate the world.
Even if they are foolish and wrong and their ambition never comes to fruition and it's just "free money", knowingly and consciously accepting gifts from people you know are causing great harm in the world taints you, irreparably.
