The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation.
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Is it really baffling though? This is the whole "Big Fedi" approach that Evan and others advocate. In The (annotated) case for "Big Fedi I used italics to highlight what's implied but usually left unsaid
"Everyone on the planet should have an account on the fediverse (even Nazis, racists, transphobes, white supremacists, hate groups who target people of color, LGBTQIA2S+ people, and other marginalized communities). It will make the internet better and the world better (if Nazis et al are on the fediverse, as opposed to trying to keep them off)
Under Eugen, Mastodon tended to be on the "Big Fedi" side -- seeing Threads' decision to adopt ActivityPub as a huge victory for the cause, opposing opt-in federation as contrary to Mastodon's mission, etc. So I see this more as a longstanding tension in fedi that's just manifesting in a different way.
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@haubles I found it most fascinating that he kept talking about a "bigger tent", and didn't even engage the argument that mastodon simply is NOT a single tent, neither big nor small.
It is a campground with many tents of varying sizes, each on with own rules and community.He also completely disregards the fact that many people came to mastodon specifically to escape the relentless onslaught of AI (content and functions) being forced into literally every other platform.
I think it is also more than one campground, bunch of campground.
Sometimes you will hear another campground having a party and wander over and join in. Other times it just makes you happy, they are being happy over there and you continue to cook your meal on the fire, while the guy next to you is debugging the USB C connector he is installing in his Commadore 64 disk drive, except a cat keeps sitting on it.
Later you go down for a swim in the lake and on way you meet some guys who want to point out a cool looking rock and some moss they found. At the lake there is a guy expert in eel history and a guy who has been sailing a single handled boat around the world, but wants to go check out the moss here.
And while politics invertently finds its way into campground form the outside world, mostly the campground is a place to escape from such pressure
Occassionly someone will turn up with a megaphone and amplified music, broadcasting. self promoting, "look at me, listrn to my podcast about me" trying to get attention, but not participating, but they largely get igored, or sent to a campground as far as way as possible.
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@s1m0n4 Most servers publish their stats and you can view them aggregated on sites like https://fedidb.com/stats.
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@troed @lutindiscret @haubles Dude, you realise Scott spent most of yesterday trying to dig himself out of the hole he created.
It apparently resulted in someone from Mastodon apologising for it. Go bug someone else.
It is you who replied to me with a post filled with lies. Again, what are you trying to accomplish?
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It is you who replied to me with a post filled with lies. Again, what are you trying to accomplish?
@troed @lutindiscret @haubles Just because someone fundamentally disagrees with you, it doesn’t mean they are lying. You could try reading the whole thread. https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116358409926549012
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@jdp23 @jens @haubles
I'm the last one to dictate the culture. I am here because I like how it is.
But I am also ready to leave if it changes too far in the wrong direction.
Just like I stayed on FB up until they explicitly allowed, almost endorsed, harassment of trans people.
That day, I deleted my account and never looked back.The question is: Why would you turn Fedi into Twitter, when you already have Twitter? What's the purpose then?
It's a great question -- especially since fedi's much better-suited for a networked communities model than it is for a Twitter alternative. I wrote about this some in https://privacy.thenexus.today/a-tale-of-two-prototypes-2/ but didn't try to answer the "why" part.
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Scott found it problematic that some people on Mastodon pour hate in people's mentions instead of using block/mute.
The ones who want to pour hate didn't like that.
@troed @lutindiscret @haubles can you show me where he was talking about harassment rather than a lack of engagement? If we all block and mute, that'll have exactly the effects he seemed to be complaining about ("number go DOWN" for example, or the way the first post is literally about how much engagement someone gets on specific topics and platforms)
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@troed @jeromio @scottjenson since when are short skirts gaslighting people, convincing teens to commit suicide, operating CSAM vending machines, slurping up the grid so regular people go without access to clean energy, polluting all repositories of human knowledge with misinformation, running fascist propaganda campaigns, and fabricating evidence to imprison and deport people? I'll give you one, their production does exploit cheap labor overseas. But a better comparison would be fur and paint.
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@troed @jeromio @scottjenson since when are short skirts gaslighting people, convincing teens to commit suicide, operating CSAM vending machines, slurping up the grid so regular people go without access to clean energy, polluting all repositories of human knowledge with misinformation, running fascist propaganda campaigns, and fabricating evidence to imprison and deport people? I'll give you one, their production does exploit cheap labor overseas. But a better comparison would be fur and paint.
@troed @jeromio @scottjenson also I don't know if you've ever been raped before, but most of us I've met who have would *never* compare it to replies where people complain about something we said. That's also something that has happened to me, and turns out it's a lot easier to get over than actual physical/sexual violence!
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@troed @lutindiscret @haubles Just because someone fundamentally disagrees with you, it doesn’t mean they are lying. You could try reading the whole thread. https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116358409926549012
@gavin57 @troed @lutindiscret @haubles I can’t see that he’s suggesting any of the things you are saying he is when reading the link you provided
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@troed @lutindiscret @haubles can you show me where he was talking about harassment rather than a lack of engagement? If we all block and mute, that'll have exactly the effects he seemed to be complaining about ("number go DOWN" for example, or the way the first post is literally about how much engagement someone gets on specific topics and platforms)
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He came from Google...
They do s.th. to peoples brains there, I don't know. Practically everybody ruining a not for profit foundation has come from Google, recently. Or so it seems.
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RE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
@haubles Yeah, I blocked this guy when I was on Twitter. He is as racist as they come.
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@stepheneb
and I hope it's clear that I value your efforts. Much appreciated.My hypothesis is that 95% of the people on mastodon are amazing and it forms a unique and valued community. My issue is with that remaining 5%. Of course,that may just be a factor of any social network.
But there are enough stories of people being dissuaded that I would still like to explore it further.
@troed @lutindiscret@scottjenson @stepheneb @troed @lutindiscret
I already from the get-go feel in your 5%. I feel comfortable there.
But sorry that I did not conform to your expectations.
/s
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@scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret I hope you find a UX way to address harassment on Mastodon. It would be very benificial. The AI example was a poor one, as literally everybody knows by now, and it’s a shame if that gets in the way of actual positive change, e.g. for marginalized communities, and ideally imho also for journalists and other asymmetrical or parasocial posters.
(Tl;dr: More minorities and famous people!)@Wlm @scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
> I hope you find a UX way to address harassment on Mastodon
I take it you weren't there back in usenet days? Because my experience from back then makes me guess that there is no way to address/police harassment "the UX way".
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@glitzersachen @jens @stefanie @haubles Possibly he's just too young to remember BBS networks. The Fediverse looks to me to be a closer match to those than to a "social media" site.
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@Wlm @scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
> I hope you find a UX way to address harassment on Mastodon
I take it you weren't there back in usenet days? Because my experience from back then makes me guess that there is no way to address/police harassment "the UX way".
There’s a nasty form of harassment where better architecture could definitely help the community do a better job limiting harassment:
Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm) (@stepheneb@ruby.social)
@scottjenson@social.coop There have been some serious architectural issues that enable harassment which also hides the harassment from others. The details are important but I can only give a flavor (will look for a post that explains it well). Goes something like this: User0 (person about to be harassed) posts. User1 posts racist reply and sets visibility to “followers only”. That actually means followers only plus User0. 1/n @Veza85UE@eupolicy.social @CStamp@mastodon.social
Ruby.social (ruby.social)
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@mortenfrisch @troed @lutindiscret @haubles ah okay, so after a bunch of pushback on the post complaining about a lack of engagement, and trying to find any other way to defend that take, the goal posts were actually somewhere else all along and he totally just miscommunicated them a million times and never moved them once!
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@glitzersachen @jens @haubles I noticed that, too. A guy who probably had a 6-figure salary, made more money in a month then I will ever see in my life, complaining about not being welcome enough.
Or to put it in other words: an old cis-het white dude crying persecution because people don't like being replaced by chatbots.
