I would consider myself a sensible skeptic, in that I do not believe in the supernatural, but if I saw something that looked like a demonic possession or a hostile ghost or whatever I would immediately LEAVE.
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@astronomerritt Christian *leaders*, on the other hand, should be disrespected as much as possible if necessary (and it's very often very necessary)!
@quidcumque Were my partner awake, they would want to high-five you for this
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@tym Ha! Oh, I like that. I might take that on myself.
I think there's an aspect to it of simply respecting your culture's old and entrenched folklore. By not cutting down a fairy tree, you're taking part in something people have been doing (or not-doing) on this island for hundreds of years. I bet it's similar for the Icelandic.
@astronomerritt Yeah I think you put that very well. There’s all kinds of stories of like road construction projects in Iceland being re-routed after someone reports that a particular boulder houses a church for the elves or something like that. One thing I love about the Icelandic elves is the whole mythology is like a textbook example of unfalsifiable claims: the elves live inside the rocks, and it’s up to them whether they let themselves be seen by humans, and they rarely do. You can choose to believe it or just to play along, without it intersecting with your participation in the world of facts much at all
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@astronomerritt Yeah I think you put that very well. There’s all kinds of stories of like road construction projects in Iceland being re-routed after someone reports that a particular boulder houses a church for the elves or something like that. One thing I love about the Icelandic elves is the whole mythology is like a textbook example of unfalsifiable claims: the elves live inside the rocks, and it’s up to them whether they let themselves be seen by humans, and they rarely do. You can choose to believe it or just to play along, without it intersecting with your participation in the world of facts much at all
@tym Yes! Exactly. And honestly, sometimes it's just fun and fulfilling to play along, because the world of facts can be bleak and disappointing, and it's nice to think that the fae/elves/etc are still out there in their trees and their rocks, where this hard cold world can't reach them, and we're doing our bit to preserve that.
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I think this is a characteristically Irish POV. Faeries aren't real. But also, you don't fuck with the faeries.
I think it was Terry Pratchett who wrote that after Blaise "Wager" Pascal¹ died, he had a welcoming committee armed with farm equipment waiting², with someone shouting "this is what we think of wise guys" before the scene bled to black.
Tbs, I would think it's untenable position to live while believing everything, and I'm sure the list of of beings who can detect lip service is rather long as well.
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¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager
² Welcome to the Pitchfork Emporium, etc. -
I think it was Terry Pratchett who wrote that after Blaise "Wager" Pascal¹ died, he had a welcoming committee armed with farm equipment waiting², with someone shouting "this is what we think of wise guys" before the scene bled to black.
Tbs, I would think it's untenable position to live while believing everything, and I'm sure the list of of beings who can detect lip service is rather long as well.
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¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager
² Welcome to the Pitchfork Emporium, etc.@iju I mean, that isn't really what I'm talking about. I'm very clear that I do not believe in the supernatural.
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I would consider myself a sensible skeptic, in that I do not believe in the supernatural, but if I saw something that looked like a demonic possession or a hostile ghost or whatever I would immediately LEAVE.
Like, I can tell myself it was a hallucination AFTERWARDS. I'm not risking my shit on that 0.1% chance I'm wrong about demons.
@astronomerritt
I had a coworker who was smart, reliable, and calm, and absolutely swore to me that they once saw a chupacabra. -
@astronomerritt
I had a coworker who was smart, reliable, and calm, and absolutely swore to me that they once saw a chupacabra.@RealGene Oooh, I wonder what they actually saw?
If I saw something weird I don't think I would be like "oh yeah totally saw a ghost". I think I'd be like "I saw something that looked like a ghost and it creeped me out enough that I noped on out of there". But I would still nope out.
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@iju I mean, that isn't really what I'm talking about. I'm very clear that I do not believe in the supernatural.
None of what I wrote above should be taken as a critique of your beliefs, or lack thereof.
Just felt like that the sensible "belts and suspenders" -policy of yours is close enough to the Wager (which has been seriously been proposed to me) that it felt like a good idea to write it down in case someone would find it useful.
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@RealGene Oooh, I wonder what they actually saw?
If I saw something weird I don't think I would be like "oh yeah totally saw a ghost". I think I'd be like "I saw something that looked like a ghost and it creeped me out enough that I noped on out of there". But I would still nope out.
It seems I have more than one "I was driving down a deserted road" tale in me!
So I was driving slowly down a deserted road (not the same road as the dentist one) late at night in a light winter fog, and I passed a figure on the side of the road near a small cremation ground in a village.
I drove past without slowing down, and about two seconds later, my brain helpfully filled in the detail that it was a slender black-shrouded figure walking with its arms raised above its head. I did not turn around.
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It seems I have more than one "I was driving down a deserted road" tale in me!
So I was driving slowly down a deserted road (not the same road as the dentist one) late at night in a light winter fog, and I passed a figure on the side of the road near a small cremation ground in a village.
I drove past without slowing down, and about two seconds later, my brain helpfully filled in the detail that it was a slender black-shrouded figure walking with its arms raised above its head. I did not turn around.
I absolutely don't believe in anything supernatural. If it wasn't my imagination and wasn't something ordinary (e.g., my headlights momentarily catching someone re-draping their shawl/blanket), I would think it was an attempt to rob passing cars.
But I still vividly remember the very strong "wait, that was _not_ normal" feeling my brain supplied in the moment (this must have been twenty years ago).
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I think this is a characteristically Irish POV. Faeries aren't real. But also, you don't fuck with the faeries.
@astronomerritt I have a similar theory involving all the Child of Prague statues causing multiple weather fronts across Ireland as all the mammies try to control the weather causing the typical chaotic conditions.
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@astronomerritt I have a similar theory involving all the Child of Prague statues causing multiple weather fronts across Ireland as all the mammies try to control the weather causing the typical chaotic conditions.
@GrantMeStrength Ha! Wonder if there's a correlation between chaotic weather conditions in Ireland and number of upcoming weddings?
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I absolutely don't believe in anything supernatural. If it wasn't my imagination and wasn't something ordinary (e.g., my headlights momentarily catching someone re-draping their shawl/blanket), I would think it was an attempt to rob passing cars.
But I still vividly remember the very strong "wait, that was _not_ normal" feeling my brain supplied in the moment (this must have been twenty years ago).
@amenonsen Oooh, good story! And, of course, your brain telling you it wasn't normal could be a misfire, or it could have genuinely subconsciously picked up on something wrong: like, as you said, someone attempting to rob passing cars.
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I think this is a characteristically Irish POV. Faeries aren't real. But also, you don't fuck with the faeries.
@astronomerritt That's how we feel about the ghost in our house. 3 have seen her: my mother (let me tell you about my mother…nevermind…there's not enough time), a worker when we had the house renovated (she told him he was cooking his lunch wrong), and our cat, Kona. But we know there's no such things as ghosts.
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I think this is a characteristically Irish POV. Faeries aren't real. But also, you don't fuck with the faeries.
100% Irish POV. "That stuff is bullshit, but also don't mess with it when it inevitably shows up." Lol. Sounds like my grandad
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@astronomerritt That's how we feel about the ghost in our house. 3 have seen her: my mother (let me tell you about my mother…nevermind…there's not enough time), a worker when we had the house renovated (she told him he was cooking his lunch wrong), and our cat, Kona. But we know there's no such things as ghosts.
I definitely saw one walk through my house, but I also firmly believe it could have been a hallucination from sewer gas or black mold. Gotta keep your options open.
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@BLatro Or I could get turned inside out by a demon! I think the question may remain unanswered for the sake of my innards not becoming my exnards.
@astronomerritt @BLatro We need to add "exnards" to the dictionary, stat.
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I would consider myself a sensible skeptic, in that I do not believe in the supernatural, but if I saw something that looked like a demonic possession or a hostile ghost or whatever I would immediately LEAVE.
Like, I can tell myself it was a hallucination AFTERWARDS. I'm not risking my shit on that 0.1% chance I'm wrong about demons.
@astronomerritt This is a wise position to take. Whether it's demonic or something with a natural explanation, there's nothing to be lost by pragmatically getting the eff out of there and figuring things out later.
"It was just a ___________."
"Cool. Still not sorry I noped out." -
@astronomerritt @BLatro We need to add "exnards" to the dictionary, stat.
@jzb I wrote "exards" first but decided "exnards" sounded funnier
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@astronomerritt This is a wise position to take. Whether it's demonic or something with a natural explanation, there's nothing to be lost by pragmatically getting the eff out of there and figuring things out later.
"It was just a ___________."
"Cool. Still not sorry I noped out."@jzb Exactly. And, I mean, sometimes our brains activate our danger senses for very good subconscious reasons. Maybe it isn't a ghost or a demon, but if my brain is yelling "get out" then I'm gonna trust it knows something I don't.
