With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!!
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@OrionKidder @bitpickup @taylorlorenz it is definitely NOT going to help if we put the onus on new users to run/moderate their own instances (even if we have turnkey solutions for this).
The people I talk to mostly complain that Mastodon seems "too complicated", and the idea that you are obligated to run your own instance is not going to help that.
Eventually some may recognize its in their interest to do so, but we need to LOWER the perceived barrier to entry, not raise it.
@OrionKidder @bitpickup @taylorlorenz additionally pressuring people to open their own instance from the start will inevitably lead to poorly moderated instances, or people giving up and leaving dead instances, which does not help anyone.
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@hfinyow @taylorlorenz I hear what you're saying. You're not wrong about the "there's no one app" thing. But at the same time:
It's not an app. It's a web site. It works great on a browser. My solution, then, would be to make an "app" that's really just a web app. It leads you to a browser instance of Mastodon. Your app will get "upgraded" when Mastodon is upgraded because it's just a website. That should be the default.
@OrionKidder That's how I use Mastodon on my phone: I made the web page an "app". It's still accessed through Firefox Mobile, but without the obvious address bar and other browser components. It works really well that way too.
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Answering this in the off chance you read replies 🤪
Biggest barrier to courting new users: we are culturally hostile here to influence peddlers and people who are trying to broadcast and don't want to interact. (ie, we treat them like the person invited to the small cocktail party at the house, who jumps up on a table and starts yelling).
Technically, users are used to being force fed content (through viral algorithms and suggested content)... i.e. passive (like TV). Mastodon is not built like that, which means people don't know how to find things they like or people to follow.
Finally (deliberately so), Mastodon is not built to tickle the endorphins... i.e. "likes" "followers" "virality" and that often turns people off, who really would like to use social media like a gambling junkie uses a slot machine (pull the lever, hope for a big payoff!). Fundamentally, non-addictive to that kind of thing.
I don't know if we want to fix any of that, though 🤪
@ai6yr "Biggest barrier to courting new users: we are culturally hostile here to influence peddlers". I'd say that is Mastodon's biggest appeal!
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@hfinyow @taylorlorenz I hear what you're saying. You're not wrong about the "there's no one app" thing. But at the same time:
It's not an app. It's a web site. It works great on a browser. My solution, then, would be to make an "app" that's really just a web app. It leads you to a browser instance of Mastodon. Your app will get "upgraded" when Mastodon is upgraded because it's just a website. That should be the default.
You can do that already.
Progressive web app
How to install Web Apps for Mastodon and the Fediverse | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse
(fedi.tips)
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz
Getting them to stay is the harder part. How many abandoned accounts are there that post a couple of times. Dont get followers, dont connect and never come back.Welcoming people.
Answer their questions
Give them tips
Help them connect to other with similar interests.
Explain how it works
Suggest content or people -
With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz Just a couple of politicians, influencers and journalists using Mastodon as their primary medium would do wonders. Dutch news routinely refers to posts on X/Twitter.
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@taylorlorenz Also, specifically for TikTok users, we actually do have a federated alternative, not sure if you heard of it, https://joinloops.org?
I wonder if Mastodon's reputation has been too tarnished by all the gatekeeping and scolding. Maybe we could get more people into the fediverse sneakily through another platform?
@stefan
I second that:
a fedi equivalent to TikTok would be Loops, not Mastodon, which sees itself as a microblogging / short text publishing platform, not a short video platform in the first place.
@taylorlorenz -
With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz There is also the problem of retaining people. @davidallengreen, a UK lawyer with solid takes on pretty much everything, just went on an extended fedi break because the purity police didn’t like him using substack and he got bored of the hassling. Lovely own goal reply guys, the only behaviour you changed was his posting on the fedi. This is a people issue not a tech issue, which I’m not quite sure how to get around. He’s not the only one either.
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@hfinyow @taylorlorenz I think I'd suggest people to just start on mastodon.social. don't worry about instances to start with, as it's very easy to migrate later. And then once they got the basic hang of it, tell them like "oh, btw as you're really into literature/art/music/tech/... did you see this other instance? I think it'd match really well with your profile. And it'd help the network, too, if you'd chose a smaller, more individual instance!"
Keep it simple to start with, don't overwhelm.@T_X @hfinyow @taylorlorenz yes but, pick another instance to recommended so we can protect the integrity of the fediverse
Mastodon.social is not a good way to join Mastodon. If you’re already on it, you might want to move your account to a different Mastodon server. | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse
(fedi.tips)
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That's a pretty slippery slope... every sleazy advertiser has started out with promises like "I just want to talk about my dear old mother's handmade traditional shaving cream is that OK?" and next thing you know we have 4 generations of Americans who have never heard of shaving soap.
The rule I go by is if you have to ask, then no you can't. I don't think you have to ask to talk about something your friend made that helps your bicycle.
CC: @MamaLake@beige.party @taylorlorenz@mastodon.social -
With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz I think it's because the fediverse, for me at least, works more as a social network than social media. And because of that it needs a network effect...but if you're joining without knowing anybody it's hard to get into a circle like that. It's a catch 22.
I was lucky on my main account to find a server for a common interest and everyone in that cluster of servers knows and interacts with each other. In a way it's ended up feeling more like old school facebook than twitter?
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz capitalist realism. People (even leftists) refuse to understand that these apps don‘t exist to "compete" with the big monetized platforms. This place has been so good for my mental health because it‘s designed with freedom in mind!
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@douglasthiel @taylorlorenz Yeah, after many years here I still think it's a bad name from a branding perspective. Bluesky sounds inspiring. Mastodon sounds complicated and stagnant.
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, people wanting to join need to drop the followers mentality and embrace the concept of an interactive audience. -
With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz the big two seen to be the decision paralysis surrounding choosing a server, and the mastodon hoa shaming new users for stuff
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz The Fediverse is impossible to censor, no one can buy it, no one can completely dismantle it. Imho, it's the future. The ability for anyone to spin up a server and there being no suggestion algorithm are features that ensure it will eventually dominate the web.
Bluesky and Upscrolled still have much of the same problems of the major SMPs. Centralization always ensures eventual enshitefication. RSS, Wikis, Federated Platforms, these are the true tech marvels of the internet.
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@taylorlorenz The Fediverse is impossible to censor, no one can buy it, no one can completely dismantle it. Imho, it's the future. The ability for anyone to spin up a server and there being no suggestion algorithm are features that ensure it will eventually dominate the web.
Bluesky and Upscrolled still have much of the same problems of the major SMPs. Centralization always ensures eventual enshitefication. RSS, Wikis, Federated Platforms, these are the true tech marvels of the internet.
@taylorlorenz Much like abusive past relationships though, we'll have to go through this a few times before we find the platform that only wants us to be freely ourselves.
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@taylorlorenz the big two seen to be the decision paralysis surrounding choosing a server, and the mastodon hoa shaming new users for stuff
@Viss @taylorlorenz I can't recall ever getting hoa shamed on mastodon, tbh.
But the decision paralysis is real.
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz I think joining Mastodon is really easy, especially with all the amazing join(this, that) .org
What could be improved is making self hosting easier and more accessible. I think that will make this beautiful project more attractive to communities (local or digital). Small self-hosted instances of people who know each other will probably be more active and engaging and thanks to the fediverse they'll connect with inspiring skeletons and the rest -
@taylorlorenz Also, specifically for TikTok users, we actually do have a federated alternative, not sure if you heard of it, https://joinloops.org?
I wonder if Mastodon's reputation has been too tarnished by all the gatekeeping and scolding. Maybe we could get more people into the fediverse sneakily through another platform?
I've been waiting for the apps to become available in the default app stores before recommending that to anyone. Testflight and an APK download are a high barrier to entry for a lot of people and first impressions are important
Edit: it's available on the app store for iOS now
