I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer.
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and FWIW it's questionable whether computers really were harder in the past.
@KentNavalesi I spent too much of my life trying to configure sound cards on MS-DOS, so I wouldn't say the past was perfect either
I just like to think we can always do better.
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@jalefkowit true, fiddling with little switches to get a mouse working was definitely bad! And it definitely seems like the incentives are all wrong these days.
@jtonline @jalefkowit My mother in law had to force-reboot her laptop the other day, but couldn't because she has arthritis and the stupid, artfully designed tiny little power button was too small and tough for her to push.
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@jtonline @jalefkowit My mother in law had to force-reboot her laptop the other day, but couldn't because she has arthritis and the stupid, artfully designed tiny little power button was too small and tough for her to push.
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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@jalefkowit @DJDarren @jtonline
My mum did just fine with a BBC micro and specific keyboard commands for markup in word processing which my dad printed and stuck to the noticeboard for her. Mum learned the 5 or 6 most useful by heart. Same for Claris Works and Apple System 7.x.
The UI didn't change. The computer did not pop shit up at her. There was no spam (or Internet).
I was also home 90% of the time to fix or talk Mum thru stuff patiently cos Mr Computing Degree Dad got grumpy.
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@jalefkowit @DJDarren @jtonline
My mum did just fine with a BBC micro and specific keyboard commands for markup in word processing which my dad printed and stuck to the noticeboard for her. Mum learned the 5 or 6 most useful by heart. Same for Claris Works and Apple System 7.x.
The UI didn't change. The computer did not pop shit up at her. There was no spam (or Internet).
I was also home 90% of the time to fix or talk Mum thru stuff patiently cos Mr Computing Degree Dad got grumpy.
I leave home and Mum works as a teacher, using Windows.
Mum downloaded all kinds of malware marketed as "toolbars" "clipart for schools". Lots of meltdowns about popups/crap. Panic clicking the X button on ALL dialogs.
Appleware from 2015 onwards has been better, but it's still not easy, although she's calmer now (retired) and I have remote-access options.
Amazon tricks Mum into Prime subscriptions a lot. I've trained her to phone & middle class harass em
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@jalefkowit @DJDarren @jtonline
My mum did just fine with a BBC micro and specific keyboard commands for markup in word processing which my dad printed and stuck to the noticeboard for her. Mum learned the 5 or 6 most useful by heart. Same for Claris Works and Apple System 7.x.
The UI didn't change. The computer did not pop shit up at her. There was no spam (or Internet).
I was also home 90% of the time to fix or talk Mum thru stuff patiently cos Mr Computing Degree Dad got grumpy.
@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren UIs randomly changing is a huge thing!
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I leave home and Mum works as a teacher, using Windows.
Mum downloaded all kinds of malware marketed as "toolbars" "clipart for schools". Lots of meltdowns about popups/crap. Panic clicking the X button on ALL dialogs.
Appleware from 2015 onwards has been better, but it's still not easy, although she's calmer now (retired) and I have remote-access options.
Amazon tricks Mum into Prime subscriptions a lot. I've trained her to phone & middle class harass em
As well as now being elderly, Mum is dyslexic and she's got a lifetime of suffering from male sexism, where men make her feel stupid for not being as good at a technical thing as she is.
There's sometimes where my partner and I (both female) can get Mum to do stuff or listen where no man can, cos she's not tensed-up for the expected sexism and sneering (or obvious THINKING sneering thoughts badly suppressed).
Glad your neighbour has you. It's not easy.
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@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren UIs randomly changing is a huge thing!
@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren and I'm getting more grumpy about stealth menus all over the place: vertical hamburgers, horizontal hamburgers, upside down ^s, etc. etc.
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@jtonline @jalefkowit My mother in law had to force-reboot her laptop the other day, but couldn't because she has arthritis and the stupid, artfully designed tiny little power button was too small and tough for her to push.
@DJDarren @jalefkowit that's unhelpful
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@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren UIs randomly changing is a huge thing!
IU changes drive ME up the wall and I'm computer literate. It's a nightmare for disabled ppl who I work with/for.
I see folk presenting via online video thwarted by UI changes that mean their test run or last week's presenting UI doesn't work anymore. UI change wasn't announced, it just changed.
Often OS/apps update on a 5-90 min timescale then force a reboot WHILE WE ARE BUSY or mid-presentation/meeting etc. Work ppl send apologies for this all the time.
@jalefkowit @DJDarren -
@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren and I'm getting more grumpy about stealth menus all over the place: vertical hamburgers, horizontal hamburgers, upside down ^s, etc. etc.
3 vertical dots. And the other 3 dots in a subtly different place. (Yes, MS Office, that is you!)
And the cog.
And the horizontal dots.
Or the V click down triangle open or coloured in.
And Win 11 whose different settingses don't even properly overlap (and breaking a load of features).
I live in Linux at home. It's not perfect but it is 95% less bad and annoying. And has better fucking fonts.
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
@jalefkowit My 40s self appreciates my then-40s parents struggles with VCRs oh so much more.
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3 vertical dots. And the other 3 dots in a subtly different place. (Yes, MS Office, that is you!)
And the cog.
And the horizontal dots.
Or the V click down triangle open or coloured in.
And Win 11 whose different settingses don't even properly overlap (and breaking a load of features).
I live in Linux at home. It's not perfect but it is 95% less bad and annoying. And has better fucking fonts.
@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren doh, v was a much easier description than upside down ^!
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
This is a similar argument I've seen explained in a video about video game UI/mechanics.
It's all made by people in-the-know, who can't really put themselves in the shoes of someone who has never heard of the thing, and thinks a quick "you just click here and voilá!" is enough.
I had to take "PC" (really, DOS and Windows 3.1) classes when I got my first computer. I was terrified of doing something wrong and it'd make the computer explode.
I try to always keep that in mind.
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IU changes drive ME up the wall and I'm computer literate. It's a nightmare for disabled ppl who I work with/for.
I see folk presenting via online video thwarted by UI changes that mean their test run or last week's presenting UI doesn't work anymore. UI change wasn't announced, it just changed.
Often OS/apps update on a 5-90 min timescale then force a reboot WHILE WE ARE BUSY or mid-presentation/meeting etc. Work ppl send apologies for this all the time.
@jalefkowit @DJDarren@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren gah, it's a miracle more computers don't end up flying out of windows!
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@NatalyaD @jalefkowit @DJDarren gah, it's a miracle more computers don't end up flying out of windows!
@jtonline @NatalyaD @jalefkowit TOO MANY ARE ALREADY AFFLICTED WITH WINDOWS
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I occasionally help an elderly neighbor get stuff done with their computer. And every single time, I walk away in incandescent rage at how hard we have made this stuff for people who have not spent their entire waking lives marinating in it
@jalefkowit My grandfather, the bookkeeper for his church, in his 80s used a massive manual, hand-cranked adding machine with row after row of buttons. When I offered him my pocket calculator instead, he shrugged and said he just didn't want to learn something new at his age.
I worked with newspaper reporters who didn't want to make the jump from typewriters to word processors.
I started using PCs back in '77 when I bought a TRS-80, so I've marinated in tech for a long time. -
@jtonline @NatalyaD @jalefkowit TOO MANY ARE ALREADY AFFLICTED WITH WINDOWS
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@jalefkowit My grandfather, the bookkeeper for his church, in his 80s used a massive manual, hand-cranked adding machine with row after row of buttons. When I offered him my pocket calculator instead, he shrugged and said he just didn't want to learn something new at his age.
I worked with newspaper reporters who didn't want to make the jump from typewriters to word processors.
I started using PCs back in '77 when I bought a TRS-80, so I've marinated in tech for a long time.@CdnCurmudgeon @jalefkowit I also suffer from the affliction "marinated in tech", is that what we call this old stew flavour?
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@jalefkowit Really?
Wanna go back to fucking around with IRQs and config.sys?
Installing Windows 3.1 from floppy disks?
Removing and re-adding TCP/IP from your dialup adapter in Windows 95 every week?
Screwing around with BBSs and BTX?
Getting printer drivers delivered by snail mail?
Bluescreens on a daily basis?
Reading the 300 page manual for Word Perfect?
All without Google?I think measured by the possibilities a modern system delivers it has become incredibly easy to use.
@thechris @jalefkowit But in those old days most people didn't need to use a computer. Now everything involves a computer, everyone has to deal with the government websites.
