"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
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"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
I dunno. What even is 'Mastodon' in this conversation?
I'm on dice.camp because I like their moderation & federation decisions. If you're on a different instance, how "echo-y" your "echo chamber" is may vary.
But if you don't like it when people are picky about who they associate with & how, just go hang out on mastodon.social or whatever.
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"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
I dunno. What even is 'Mastodon' in this conversation?
I'm on dice.camp because I like their moderation & federation decisions. If you're on a different instance, how "echo-y" your "echo chamber" is may vary.
But if you don't like it when people are picky about who they associate with & how, just go hang out on mastodon.social or whatever.
I thought a big part of the value of Fedi is how much choice we have over who we associate with.
Why is it a bad thing that people who are choosey about their online experience don't want to listen to AI-shills?
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I thought a big part of the value of Fedi is how much choice we have over who we associate with.
Why is it a bad thing that people who are choosey about their online experience don't want to listen to AI-shills?
@artemis the number of servers I don't see and don't have to interact with thankfully
- Calista
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It's interesting how important it is to some people that you supposedly shouldn't be choosey about who you associate with.
The person I saw talking about this framed the "problem" of AI-shills being "unwelcome" on Fedi (not sure I buy that either—they seem to have their own corners of Fedi) as the same thing as Black users being harassed/unsafe/not included, which is just absurd.
It's very "blue lives matter" coded, ya know? Like, being a techbro is not an inherent part of who you are.
They have to frame it as a diversity issue because they want to distract from the fact that it is a *consent* issue!
Not wanting to associate with Black people is bigotry, but not wanting to associate with AI-shills is just protecting your peace. These are not the goddamn same, & it's really sinister asking people to pretend they are.
It is weird to insist people should HAVE to interact with you, regardless of your behavior. It shows a lack of respect for people's agency & choice.
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I thought a big part of the value of Fedi is how much choice we have over who we associate with.
Why is it a bad thing that people who are choosey about their online experience don't want to listen to AI-shills?
It's interesting how important it is to some people that you supposedly shouldn't be choosey about who you associate with.
The person I saw talking about this framed the "problem" of AI-shills being "unwelcome" on Fedi (not sure I buy that either—they seem to have their own corners of Fedi) as the same thing as Black users being harassed/unsafe/not included, which is just absurd.
It's very "blue lives matter" coded, ya know? Like, being a techbro is not an inherent part of who you are.
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They have to frame it as a diversity issue because they want to distract from the fact that it is a *consent* issue!
Not wanting to associate with Black people is bigotry, but not wanting to associate with AI-shills is just protecting your peace. These are not the goddamn same, & it's really sinister asking people to pretend they are.
It is weird to insist people should HAVE to interact with you, regardless of your behavior. It shows a lack of respect for people's agency & choice.
In the year 2026, it is the height of bad faith to argue that moderating online community & maintaining spaces that are free & honest & not controlled by techno-fascists is somehow regressive.
We are living with the results of their online takeover. How are you going to act like people are overreacting when they say they want to choose carefully which types of interactions belong in the spaces they are in?
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In the year 2026, it is the height of bad faith to argue that moderating online community & maintaining spaces that are free & honest & not controlled by techno-fascists is somehow regressive.
We are living with the results of their online takeover. How are you going to act like people are overreacting when they say they want to choose carefully which types of interactions belong in the spaces they are in?
How are you going to pretend it doesn't matter? Online manipulation helped give us the global rise of fascism.
Insisting that we may not exercise our own discretion in our association with others online is insisting people expose themselves to potential harm & surrender to the outcomes desired by bad actors.
It is just too goddamn late for this show of naivety to be convincing.
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E em0nm4stodon@infosec.exchange shared this topic
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In the year 2026, it is the height of bad faith to argue that moderating online community & maintaining spaces that are free & honest & not controlled by techno-fascists is somehow regressive.
We are living with the results of their online takeover. How are you going to act like people are overreacting when they say they want to choose carefully which types of interactions belong in the spaces they are in?
@artemis online community moderation arose (truly, for real) out of feminist praxis and the pushback against it is similarly situated
the fundamental claims- that consent matters, that we owe one another something, that you may not just cause harm and wander away- are the antithesis of grabby, aggressive, scarcity-based individualism
and some people, mostly men, act like their very lives are at stake in finding themselves expected to share responsibility for norms and upkeep and impacts
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Bad actors will always try to hijack "diversity" to force us to accept actual enemies into our camp.
"AI", as it exists now, is a tool of our enemies: they use it to enshrine bias into employment processes so it no longer requires a bigoted human in the loop. They use AI to devalue the work of writers, researchers, coders, artists & more. They use AI to automate decisions of who should be bombed, who should starve, & who should be erased/ignored/& excluded.
Calling us bigots for not welcoming enemy propagandists is fucking rich.
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How are you going to pretend it doesn't matter? Online manipulation helped give us the global rise of fascism.
Insisting that we may not exercise our own discretion in our association with others online is insisting people expose themselves to potential harm & surrender to the outcomes desired by bad actors.
It is just too goddamn late for this show of naivety to be convincing.
Bad actors will always try to hijack "diversity" to force us to accept actual enemies into our camp.
"AI", as it exists now, is a tool of our enemies: they use it to enshrine bias into employment processes so it no longer requires a bigoted human in the loop. They use AI to devalue the work of writers, researchers, coders, artists & more. They use AI to automate decisions of who should be bombed, who should starve, & who should be erased/ignored/& excluded.
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@artemis online community moderation arose (truly, for real) out of feminist praxis and the pushback against it is similarly situated
the fundamental claims- that consent matters, that we owe one another something, that you may not just cause harm and wander away- are the antithesis of grabby, aggressive, scarcity-based individualism
and some people, mostly men, act like their very lives are at stake in finding themselves expected to share responsibility for norms and upkeep and impacts
THIS. 1000%.
In 2020, I found myself isolated in a small rural town. I asked a town official if we had a listserv for community conversations. He thought it was a great idea & asked me to create one.
So I did. Every post is moderated. Because I've see what happens when communities become free-for-all. Voices get silenced. People leave. The only ones left are the aggressors.
A tech bro tried to convince me the *only* way to get full participation was to have it unmoderated.
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THIS. 1000%.
In 2020, I found myself isolated in a small rural town. I asked a town official if we had a listserv for community conversations. He thought it was a great idea & asked me to create one.
So I did. Every post is moderated. Because I've see what happens when communities become free-for-all. Voices get silenced. People leave. The only ones left are the aggressors.
A tech bro tried to convince me the *only* way to get full participation was to have it unmoderated.
1/I was a part of online communities he had created (where I used to live) & watched that winnowing away happen in real time. I was one of the participants who walked away when this tech bro wouldn't act to reign in hate speech.
If that is full participation, I'll eat my laptop.
2/2
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"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
I dunno. What even is 'Mastodon' in this conversation?
I'm on dice.camp because I like their moderation & federation decisions. If you're on a different instance, how "echo-y" your "echo chamber" is may vary.
But if you don't like it when people are picky about who they associate with & how, just go hang out on mastodon.social or whatever.
@artemis@dice.camp I keep seeing people react to this but not seeing the origin, who's saying that 'mastodon is an echo chamber'? I guessing its a bot campaign, exactly the kind of thing that isn't tolerated here, and that's why they're mad
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"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
I dunno. What even is 'Mastodon' in this conversation?
I'm on dice.camp because I like their moderation & federation decisions. If you're on a different instance, how "echo-y" your "echo chamber" is may vary.
But if you don't like it when people are picky about who they associate with & how, just go hang out on mastodon.social or whatever.
@artemis I wonder how much is smoke and mirrors. Do other social networks love AI? Or is that just the owner's algorithms and the ease of faking popularity with bots and sock puppet accounts when you have billions of dollars behind you?
Because yeah, I also see ai boosters, but it seems more like no one cares to boost their posts so few people see them.
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@mook
If you are curious, I (and I assume at least some of the other people you are seeing) am reacting to a social.coop user Scott Jenson. Looks like he's a largish account, but unsurprisingly in the Fedi circles I am in, most people are pretty damned unimpressed with his take.@mook
It seems to be pretty standard white tech bro nonsense. It's just kind of funny to me because it seems like he's literally not understanding what Fedi is at a pretty fundamental level. We get to choose what "Fedi" is in our own experience. That's how it is built. -
@artemis@dice.camp I keep seeing people react to this but not seeing the origin, who's saying that 'mastodon is an echo chamber'? I guessing its a bot campaign, exactly the kind of thing that isn't tolerated here, and that's why they're mad
@mook
If you are curious, I (and I assume at least some of the other people you are seeing) am reacting to a social.coop user Scott Jenson. Looks like he's a largish account, but unsurprisingly in the Fedi circles I am in, most people are pretty damned unimpressed with his take. -
Calling us bigots for not welcoming enemy propagandists is fucking rich.
Call me old school, but IMO *nobody* is obliged to interact with someone, or has to justify if they don't. It's an individual's *free* choice.
(And I for one block anyone who's spreading AI propaganda.)
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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Calling us bigots for not welcoming enemy propagandists is fucking rich.
But seriously, I am pretty sure there are corners of Fedi where AI boosters are totally welcome.
That's the thing about Fedi.
But it's possible instances where AI boosting is welcome & encouraged may find themselves defederated from instances that don't promote AI slop & blocked by users who don't want to see that shit in their timeline.
And that's what they are complaining about. They are complaining that they don't get to insist on being in your timeline & in your mentions.
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@mook
It seems to be pretty standard white tech bro nonsense. It's just kind of funny to me because it seems like he's literally not understanding what Fedi is at a pretty fundamental level. We get to choose what "Fedi" is in our own experience. That's how it is built.@artemis@dice.camp ah, and social.coop itself is an explicitly left wing instance with a pretty strict blocklist, like you have to fill out an application to join, at least you did when i tried to join, so idk dude if you want a place more tolerant of slop there are plenty
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But seriously, I am pretty sure there are corners of Fedi where AI boosters are totally welcome.
That's the thing about Fedi.
But it's possible instances where AI boosting is welcome & encouraged may find themselves defederated from instances that don't promote AI slop & blocked by users who don't want to see that shit in their timeline.
And that's what they are complaining about. They are complaining that they don't get to insist on being in your timeline & in your mentions.
If you're complaining that the kind of behavior that is widely seen as extremely antisocial is unwelcome in many people's "social media" experience, maybe Fedi isn't for you.
I don't think you want a social media platform that is constructed around choice, because I see you out here really upset that people are making the choice that they don't want AI in their lives.
