I guess it was convenient for my mental evolution when leaving the cult that virulent misogynists are always incredibly bigoted about other things.
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During my process deconstructing from strict, ideological patriarchy, I kept tabs on/analyzed what was happening in Red Pill/incel/"men's rights" spaces, & they just slap you in the face with their racism, antisemitism, & queerphobia (among other things).
In my childhood people had just straight-up lied to me & told me racism died in the 60s & Black people were just making it up (yes, I hear it now) & other ridiculous lies like that.
They couldn't keep lying to me about that after I found the online spaces where men were deliberately spewing non-stop hatred & bigotry.
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It's one thing to tell a child in a gatekept white community that racism—a thing which is deliberately tucked out of sight in that context—isn't real, but when she grows up & sees the things these men say when they are talking to each other, that lie fucking crumbles.
You can't both tell me "racism isn't real" & then say the most racist shit imaginable. It's not very convincing.
Given that I grew up in an ethnocentric white community ("if you ain't 'Dutch', you ain't much") among proto-Christian Nationalists, I'm surprised that I didn't just grow desensitized, but this was before everyone went full mask off (or hoods on), back when they were playing at human decency.
Still, it was all around me. I KNOW I was just a kid & that I started sorting through this all at the earliest opportunity, but it still bugs the hell out of me that I didn't see it.
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Given that I grew up in an ethnocentric white community ("if you ain't 'Dutch', you ain't much") among proto-Christian Nationalists, I'm surprised that I didn't just grow desensitized, but this was before everyone went full mask off (or hoods on), back when they were playing at human decency.
Still, it was all around me. I KNOW I was just a kid & that I started sorting through this all at the earliest opportunity, but it still bugs the hell out of me that I didn't see it.
In my mind, my childhood has this horrible miasma around it of all the bigotry I didn't know I was participating in.
I did not choose it. When I reached adulthood & got out into the world, I chose to say no to all of that shit & learned how to do better.
But it's still so fucking gross to know that my "idyllic" childhood actually involved close contact with some of the most toxic ideologies imaginable. Makes me want to take a shower & try to scrub it all off.
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It's one thing to tell a child in a gatekept white community that racism—a thing which is deliberately tucked out of sight in that context—isn't real, but when she grows up & sees the things these men say when they are talking to each other, that lie fucking crumbles.
You can't both tell me "racism isn't real" & then say the most racist shit imaginable. It's not very convincing.
that's the game called "i didn't say n-word so i'm not racist".
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In my mind, my childhood has this horrible miasma around it of all the bigotry I didn't know I was participating in.
I did not choose it. When I reached adulthood & got out into the world, I chose to say no to all of that shit & learned how to do better.
But it's still so fucking gross to know that my "idyllic" childhood actually involved close contact with some of the most toxic ideologies imaginable. Makes me want to take a shower & try to scrub it all off.
@artemis that's whiteness. it's in every white family.
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In my mind, my childhood has this horrible miasma around it of all the bigotry I didn't know I was participating in.
I did not choose it. When I reached adulthood & got out into the world, I chose to say no to all of that shit & learned how to do better.
But it's still so fucking gross to know that my "idyllic" childhood actually involved close contact with some of the most toxic ideologies imaginable. Makes me want to take a shower & try to scrub it all off.
And honestly, y'all, on a personal level, I'm just mad that people lied to me about this.
No, you can't expect white supremacists to be honest, & I get that, but I *hate* the lies they told me to convince me we weren't bigoted. It disgusts me.
I was a child. All I wanted was to know what was right & how to do right by others, & it's horrible for someone to take that & pervert it.
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And honestly, y'all, on a personal level, I'm just mad that people lied to me about this.
No, you can't expect white supremacists to be honest, & I get that, but I *hate* the lies they told me to convince me we weren't bigoted. It disgusts me.
I was a child. All I wanted was to know what was right & how to do right by others, & it's horrible for someone to take that & pervert it.
Making other people participants in your hate feels unforgivable.
They would have made me be like them if they could have, & I hate them for it, & I hate them even more for how close they came.
They scorched my soul.
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@artemis that's whiteness. it's in every white family.
@burnitdown
It is. I did get the concentrated version, though. In our religious cult, we were rubbing elbows with full-on white supremacists & other forms of extremists. -
Making other people participants in your hate feels unforgivable.
They would have made me be like them if they could have, & I hate them for it, & I hate them even more for how close they came.
They scorched my soul.
This is also why I struggle to understand why other people haven't left. They tell obvious lies that it feels like only a naive child would be fooled by.
Like, I get how they had me fooled at 10. I don't know how tf I was supposed to stay fooled at 20. They weren't actually hiding their bigotry. They were just lying about it.
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This is also why I struggle to understand why other people haven't left. They tell obvious lies that it feels like only a naive child would be fooled by.
Like, I get how they had me fooled at 10. I don't know how tf I was supposed to stay fooled at 20. They weren't actually hiding their bigotry. They were just lying about it.
I suppose in the pre-internet days I wouldn't have been able to just see what the men in these communities said to each other behind closed doors, so maybe it would have taken longer for the penny to drop.
Women in religious communities like ours generally don't talk about their own opinions. A lot of them only talk about their kids & housework & literally NOTHING ELSE, so it is mostly men who decide to "say the quiet part out loud" because the women don't have anything to say *at all.*
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I suppose in the pre-internet days I wouldn't have been able to just see what the men in these communities said to each other behind closed doors, so maybe it would have taken longer for the penny to drop.
Women in religious communities like ours generally don't talk about their own opinions. A lot of them only talk about their kids & housework & literally NOTHING ELSE, so it is mostly men who decide to "say the quiet part out loud" because the women don't have anything to say *at all.*
My sister expressed surprise to my mom that I called out that she had posted anti-immigrant content online, because she didn't think she had said anything. Weirdly (haha) she didn't deny being anti-immigrant, just was surprised to have been caught saying something.
(Turns out I was referencing a comment she had made chiming in on someone's xenophobic Facebook post).
But yeah, I guess my sister tries to just play the mild, meek, "oh I don't think about those things" housewife.
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My sister expressed surprise to my mom that I called out that she had posted anti-immigrant content online, because she didn't think she had said anything. Weirdly (haha) she didn't deny being anti-immigrant, just was surprised to have been caught saying something.
(Turns out I was referencing a comment she had made chiming in on someone's xenophobic Facebook post).
But yeah, I guess my sister tries to just play the mild, meek, "oh I don't think about those things" housewife.
That gendered piece is actually another thing I'm trying to work out right now.
It's kind of funny that working so hard to deconstruct patriarchy & misogyny in my own mind has made it hard to understand people still in that trap because it all feels so meaningless now. I've nearly forgotten at this point what it actually felt like.
So I see my sister playing "innocent little white housewife" & wonder why tf she thinks she's excused from moral responsibility.
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That gendered piece is actually another thing I'm trying to work out right now.
It's kind of funny that working so hard to deconstruct patriarchy & misogyny in my own mind has made it hard to understand people still in that trap because it all feels so meaningless now. I've nearly forgotten at this point what it actually felt like.
So I see my sister playing "innocent little white housewife" & wonder why tf she thinks she's excused from moral responsibility.
"oh, I just let the men worry about that stuff."
No, fuck you. You're a grown woman. You make your own choices. You don't get to offload the responsibility for that onto another person. Choosing to let others choose for you is no fucking excuse.
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"oh, I just let the men worry about that stuff."
No, fuck you. You're a grown woman. You make your own choices. You don't get to offload the responsibility for that onto another person. Choosing to let others choose for you is no fucking excuse.
I think she resents me for expecting her to make her own moral decisions, as if I should know & be understanding of the fact that she doesn't think or decide things for herself.
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"oh, I just let the men worry about that stuff."
No, fuck you. You're a grown woman. You make your own choices. You don't get to offload the responsibility for that onto another person. Choosing to let others choose for you is no fucking excuse.
@artemis this is exactly how my sister acts.
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I think she resents me for expecting her to make her own moral decisions, as if I should know & be understanding of the fact that she doesn't think or decide things for herself.
White supremacy infantalizes women because it makes them easier to control, but ALSO as a defense mechanism.
They want their women to all go "oh, I'm just a little housewife taking care of my family! How could you think I'm racist when I'm just a homemaker who raises kids & bakes bread? I don't decide anything."
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White supremacy infantalizes women because it makes them easier to control, but ALSO as a defense mechanism.
They want their women to all go "oh, I'm just a little housewife taking care of my family! How could you think I'm racist when I'm just a homemaker who raises kids & bakes bread? I don't decide anything."
@artemis Staring blankly at "raises kids" which is the primary propagation vector for white supremacism.
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@artemis Staring blankly at "raises kids" which is the primary propagation vector for white supremacism.
@dalias
Right? Like "oh, how harmless, being the primary person teaching bigotry to a bunch of children." -
I think she resents me for expecting her to make her own moral decisions, as if I should know & be understanding of the fact that she doesn't think or decide things for herself.
@artemis
There is A LOT of this out there in the world, and some of the worst ideas coast far too long on it. Momentum through family units is a huge contributor to right wing garbage harming people. -
White supremacy infantalizes women because it makes them easier to control, but ALSO as a defense mechanism.
They want their women to all go "oh, I'm just a little housewife taking care of my family! How could you think I'm racist when I'm just a homemaker who raises kids & bakes bread? I don't decide anything."
Anyway, to give you an idea of the level of garbage I'm talking about, Pete Hegseth belongs to the church denomination I was raised in.
