By now you've all probably heard about the latest shenanigans from Google and their love for in-browser AI features (if you don't, this is the story: https://www.theverge.com/tech/924933/google-chrome-4gb-gemini-nano-ai-features).

[cholling@bytes.programming.dev]

@pl @Vivaldi Ever try rolling your own rendering engine?

[cal@kind.social]

@gbsills @kyu3a @Vivaldi DuckDuckGo, by default, is all-in on AI. You want https://noai.duckduckgo.com/

[gbsills@social.vivaldi.net]

@Cal @kyu3a @Vivaldi True. I just flipped the switch and turned it off.

[cal@kind.social]

@EricCarroll @Vivaldi We have no way of objectively knowing.

Vivaldi repackages the free open-source Chromium project with their own proprietary blend of herbs and spices and doesn't let anyone see the exact changes they're making.

[gbsills@social.vivaldi.net]

@Cal @kyu3a @Vivaldi

I wonder if making the settings to "No AI ever" effectively does the same thing and redirects you (behind a load balancer) to the no ai version?

[bottledfries@social.vivaldi.net]

@Vivaldi So say we all!

[jeantranscene@mastodon.social]

@Vivaldi If a tool gives a clear advantage in any given field where people compete, any competitor would be well inspired to start using it regardless of his/her feeling toward said tool, or risk becoming irrelevant very quick.
As for a countries, regardless how you feel about atomic bombs, having it in your arsenal will prevent attacks from predator nations.
Indignation and verbal abuse will stop this. Making AI run independtly on user PC is a better and greener bet in my opinion.

[pl@cosocial.ca]

@cholling @Vivaldi no, but in my defense I also don't author or monetize a browser

[hunterz@mastodon.sdf.org]

@pl @cholling @Vivaldi there's a reason that only 3 browser engines exist today - it's a massive amount of work to keep with vulnerabilies and standards.

Unfortunately Apple and Google ones share a common code ancestor, while Google and Mozilla ones are both funded by Google.

[pl@cosocial.ca]

@HunterZ @cholling @Vivaldi I understand all that, but imagine if the OS sphere was entirely controlled by corporations.

Similarly, if it can be done for OSes, it can be done for rendering engines.

Plus with AI agents, there really should be more courageous ventures.

[cholling@bytes.programming.dev]

@pl @HunterZ @Vivaldi Are you seriously proposing using AI agents in a thread about keeping AI out of the browser?

[jeanieburrell@mstdn.social]

@Vivaldi And that's why I remain a happy Vivaldi user!

[pl@cosocial.ca]

@cholling @Vivaldi @HunterZ I am suggesting that AI coding agents can help with the difficulty of creating and managing an independent engine, not that any AI features should be embedded in a browser

[hunterz@mastodon.sdf.org]

@cholling @Vivaldi @pl

[solitha@mastodon.social]

@cynical13 You can add it easily, or edit DDG to the noai version.

@Vivaldi

[hunterz@mastodon.sdf.org]

@pl @cholling @Vivaldi Linux is the only meaningful competitor to Apple and Microsoft OSes, and it's a niche thing that is mostly used for servers rather than by end users. It's also now subsidized by corporations because they use it as infrastructure.

Browsers on the other hand are an end user thing, so the value proposition of trying to break Google's (and to a lesser extent) Apple's hegemony is much different - especially since Google is also propping up Mozilla to suck even more oxygen.

[cynical13@social.vivaldi.net]

@solitha @Vivaldi

Yes, I can.

But if the company is making a stand against AI like this, should I *have* to?...

[rejzor@mastodon.social]

@Vivaldi I actually highly encourage local Ai models that work fully offline for obvious reasons, but one thing is doing things openly and transparently and another is downloading 4GB model without telling user because you're Google and you "know better".

[tezoatlipoca@mas.to]

@kyu3a

Apart from everyone else pointing out this is a search engine problem not a browser problem, in general I wouldn't want my browser to carte-blance remove or filter (or in any way "interpret" my chosen web content. Its different when a plugin does this, because adding the plugin to your browser is an opt-in affair; and ux wise, when a plugin filters or alters content there's a way to notice or find out what it is doing (some kind of "splat").

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[tezoatlipoca@mas.to]

@kyu3a

In addition, say Vivaldi had a "Filter Gemni Google 'Ai Overview'" feature. a) would Vivaldi be smart enough to filter it on a possibly proxied google search and NOT say in an article about Google Ai Overview somewhere else? b) everytime the Google search page front end changes (which I bet is seven times/day) your browser has to update and Vivaldi already pushes numerous changes/week, just saying (keep doing it tho.)

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